How I See Esports, Promotion, and Our Role in Growth

Discussion in 'Injustice 2' started by CrimsonShadow, Oct 4, 2017.

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  1. TopTierBarry

    TopTierBarry Premium Supporter
    Premium Supporter

    That's the dumbest idea ever
     
    #51
  2. Nobus3r1

    Nobus3r1 House of Bane; ID: 8V596

    PSN:
    Nobus3r1
    I think that this is an area were NRS's past behavior (and hopefully only past behavior) has done a tremendous amount of harm. In short, the fact that NRS has repeatedly proven that they are willing to nerf (and usually over-nerf) anything that's OP or that has a sufficient volume of people claim is OP has IMO made those who're good at finding such things incredibly reluctant to broadcast their existence until they've managed to utilize said OP tech to get paid. I would say that the "Hide this shit from the developers" mindset is, if I had to guess, a reason that's likely made a lot of top players reluctant to broadcast what they're working on.
    I think that talking in absolutes about payouts is a bad idea. It should be flexible. How deep the payout goes should be entirely dependent on how much money is being paid out. I think that the Magic: the Gathering Grand Prix payout table that I linked to a page or so ago is the sort of thing that the FGC should be shooting for. In the short term this may take a tiny bite out of the first place slice (this is also why this sort of proposal sees so much resistance) but in the long run it's almost certainly going to result in a bigger pie for everyone.
     
    #52
  3. Roy Arkon

    Roy Arkon Noob

    PSN:
    RoyArkon46
    Oh I see, it was a joke. Cause' it actually sounded like a good idea, oh well then.
     
    #53
  4. TopTierBarry

    TopTierBarry Premium Supporter
    Premium Supporter

    maybe at surface level, but if you stop and think about it it's more likely to drive people off streams then actually improve numbers
     
    #54
  5. Roy Arkon

    Roy Arkon Noob

    PSN:
    RoyArkon46
    Yeah I get it.
     
    #55
    TopTierBarry likes this.
  6. SM StarGazer

    SM StarGazer The voice of reason in a Sea of Salt

    Leet's start a Week Of: Series. Anyone.

    In Three weeks we start a Week Of series where we highlight a character, go thorugh strings, normals, combos, setups, and MU's. Then we hold a Best Of, that weekend where we start a tournament of the best people of that character. Would be fun to see who gets crowned best Grodd.
     
    #56
  7. I would rather die than participate in a tournament of Dr Fate mirror matches for the opportunity of more exposure.

    - Icarus
     
    #57
    Flamelurkr, Bleu231 and TopTierBarry like this.
  8. HoneyBee

    HoneyBee Flash God Lord

    To add onto what @KingHippo said regarding my sponsorship, you have to take into account what sponsors were in the scene when you got 2nd in 2015 vs me getting 2nd in 2017.

    2015 NRS Sponsors:
    Critical Reaction
    Yomi

    2017 NRS Sponsors:
    Echo Fox
    NASR
    Noble
    Rogue
    Renegades
    Beastcoast
    Eanix
    F3
    Method
    PxP?

    Sponsors are way bigger and way better now than two years ago. When I was with cR, while I appreciate what they did for me, I was getting pennies compared to now because there simply wasn't any big sponsors in the scene at that time.

    I have no idea what PxP provides for you but if you want a bigger sponsor, I 100% suggest being solo for a while cause being with a sponsor prevents other sponsors from approaching you. I wasn't really approached after my 2nd place at EVO cause at the time I was still cR.

    Also, my bro went to EU in August 100% on his own dime. Just throwing that out there.
     
    #58
  9. Tweedy

    Tweedy Noob

    Can we talk about how Foxy said Madzin has made 4 world finals when many, many NA players could have made 3 of those through the EU side of ESL.

    We had guys like Foreverking missing ESL finals, while anyone with a beating heart would have made it through on the EU side, due to weaker competition and Russians falling out with no visas.
     
    #59
  10. SM StarGazer

    SM StarGazer The voice of reason in a Sea of Salt

    Tweedy just called out an entire NATION!! SAVAVE!!!
     
    #60
  11. Shock

    Shock Administrator
    Administrator

    PSN:
    UMKShock
    XBL:
    EWAShock
    If anyone wants to analyze some numbers, I have a lot of data that could shed some light on why the numbers go up and down, which tournaments get more attention or promotion and which days/what was being streamed. As a secondary streamer but a consistent NRS streamer, these are events that for the most part included NRS titles but I left out most VSM weeklies, which averaged 200-400 viewers per week over about 18 months, also Red Bank Rumble bi weeklies which rarely broke 100 or the few times I subbed for Jaxel at the Break. I feel like there's a noticeable build but the jumps and dives are constant due to waning interest every cycle.

    All totals are max concurrents for the day.

    2011

    Seasons Beatings Velocity - Saturday October 15th - MK9 Pools: 450
    KN Invitational from YesterCades - Saturday November 12 - 8 Player Invite Only MK9 Tournament: 236

    2012

    KN Revolution X from YesterCades - Sunday January 22nd 2012 - MK9 Tournament: 591
    KN On The Edge - Saturday February 11th - MK9 Tournament: 230
    Winter Brawl 6 - Saturday February 18th - MK9 Pools: 697
    KN 9.95 Memorial Fundraiser - Saturday February 26th - Various MK titles: 360
    KN On The Edge II Day 1 - Saturday May 12th - MK9: 195
    KN On The Edge II Day 2 - Sunday May 13th - MK9 Finals: 524
    Summer Jam 6 - Saturday August 26th - MK9 Pools 240 (Bifuteki Split Streamed for us due to 995 being stuck in the hurricane)
    NEC 13 - Saturday December 1st - MK9 Pools: 562

    2013

    KN Operation Wolf from YesterCades - Saturday January 26th: MK9 Tournament: 371
    Winter Brawl 7 - Saturday February 23rd - MK9: 544
    KN Injustice Release Party - Tuesday April 16th - Injustice Party: 393
    KN VSM - Thursday April 25th - First Injustice Tournament: 950
    KN Project Injustice from YesterCades - Friday April 27 - Injustice: 704
    KN On The Edge 3 - Saturday May 11th - Injustce and various NRS: 1197
    ECT V Day 1 - Saturday May 18th - Injustice Pools and various NRS: 2257
    ECT V Day 2 - Sunday May 19th - Injustce Top 32 + UMK3 Russia Exhibition: 2406
    GUTS II - Saturday June 15th - Injustice Pools: 198
    KN 9.95 Memorial Fundraiser - Saturday June 22nd - Injustice and various NRS: 537
    KN Rampage from YesterCades - Saturday July 27th - Injustice Tournament: 114
    KN Marlboro Slaughterhouse - Saturday August 3rd - Injustice Tournament: 214
    Summer Jam 7 Day 1 - Saturday August 17th - Injustice Pools: 1102
    Summer Jam 7 Day 2 - Sunday August 18th - MK9 and classics?: 912
    KN/Monster Island Infinite Crisis - Saturday August 31st- Injustice Tournament: 778
    TFC Day 1 - Saturday September 14th - Injustice Pools: 1269
    TFC Day 2 - Sunday September 15th - Classic MKs? MK9?: 751
    KN/Monster Island Kingdom Come - Saturday September 28 – Injustice Tournament: 326
    NEC 14 - Saturday December 8th - Injustice Pools: 1074

    2014

    Winter Brawl 8 Day 1 - Saturday February 22nd - Injustice: 1139
    Winter Brawl 8 Day 2 - Sunday February 23rd - Classic MKs: 493
    Final Round 17 Day 1 - Friday March 14th - Injustice Teams: 670
    Final Round 17 Day 2 - Saturday March 15th - Injustice: 1615
    Final Round 17 Day 3 - Sunday March 16th - Classic MKs: 469
    King of the Monsters - Saturday August 16 - Injustice + MK9: 156
    Summer Jam 8 Day 1 - Saturday August 30th - Injustice: 431
    Summer Jam 8 Day 2 - Sunday August 31st - Classic MKs?: 388
    GUTS 3 - Saturday September 20th - Injustice and various games: 253
    TFC 2014 Day 1 - Saturday October 11th - Injustice Pools: 471
    TFC 2014 Day 2 - Sunday October 12th - Injustice Top 8: 654 (~11AM start)
    NEC 15 Day 1 - Saturday December 6th - Injustice: 556
    NEC 15 Day 2 - Sunday December 7th - MK9 + Injustice top 8s? 669 (early start)

    2015

    Winter Brawl 9 Day 1 - Saturday February 21st - Injustice Pools: 453
    Winter Brawl 9 Day 2 - Sunday February 22nd - Injustice Top 8 : 910
    Final Round 18 Day 1 - Friday March 20th - Not much NRS: 1099
    Final Round 18 Day 2 - Saturday March 21st - Injustice + Various Games: 1447
    KN HellRaiser - Saturday March 28th - Various NRS: 436
    The Break Weekly #304 - Tuesday April 28th - MKX: 628 (the best of 4 weeks of subbing for 8WR)
    ECT 7 Day 1 - Saturday June 13th - MKX Pools + Various games: 2673
    ECT 7 Day 2 - Sunday June 14th - MKX Top 16 + other game finals: 5584
    Summer Jam 9 Day 1 - Saturday August 29th - MKX Pools: 4518
    Summer Jam 9 Day 2 - Sunday August 30th - MKX Top 16: 5249
    TFC 2015 Day 1 - Saturday September 11th - MKX Teams: 1122
    TFC 2015 Day 2 - Sunday September 12th - MKX Pools: 3500
    TFC 2015 Day 3 - Sunday September 13th - Classic MKs: 468
    A Video Game Con - Saturday September 19th - MKX + Various: 417
    NEC 16 - Saturday December 12th - MKX Pools Through top 16: 3191

    2016

    Winter Brawl X - Saturday February 27th - MKX Pools: 2120
    Final Round 19 Day 1 - Friday March 18th - MKX Teams: 1397
    Final Round 19 Day 2 - Saturday March 19th - MKX Pools: 7319
    Final Round 19 Day 3 - Sunday March 20th - Various Games Finals: 4126
    Summer Jam X Day 1 - Saturday August 20th - MKX Pools: 1654
    Summer Jam X Day 2 - Sunday August 21st - Injustice + Classic MKs: 499
    ECT 8 Day 1 - Saturday September 3rd - MKX Pools: 937
    ECT 8 Day 2 - Sunday September 4th - Various games finals: 1598
    TFC 2016 Day 1 - Saturday October 7th - MKX Teams: 380
    TFC 2016 Day 2 - Sunday October 8th - MKX Pools: 872
    TFC 2016 Day 3 - Sunday October 9th - MKX Top 8: 1365
    GUTS 4 - Saturday November 12th - MKX and various games: 377
    NEC 17 - Saturday December 17th - MKX Pools Through top 16: 2456

    2017

    Winter Brawl XI - Saturday February 18th - MKX Pools: 822
    Final Round XX Day 1 - Friday March 10th - MKX Teams: 729
    Final Round XX Day 2 - Saturday March 11th - MKX Pools: 1702
    CT GamerCon Day 1 - Saturday April 1st - Various games: 907 (no NRS IIRC)
    CT GamerCon Day 2 - Sunday April 2nd - Various games: 1104 (no NRS IIRC)
    Summer Jam XI - Friday August 11th - Injustice 2 Teams: 905
     
    #61
  12. CrimsonShadow

    CrimsonShadow Administrator and Community Engineer
    Administrator

    Thanks Shock for putting these together. Interesting to look back and see the big jumps in numbers from 2013-2017.

    No doubt if we had the numbers from IPS we'd see that that upward trend has continued on average.
     
    #62
    Shock likes this.
  13. Shock

    Shock Administrator
    Administrator

    PSN:
    UMKShock
    XBL:
    EWAShock
    Over the years as I've analyzed stuff event to event, it seemed to me that there was a clear pattern of viewership and turnout for events, but I think the last year or so that is out the window. Also there are several little factors here and there that can hurt viewership that don't affect turnout and vice versa. The formula back in the day use to be about 10:1 ratio for the main stream vs KN but not the same for everyone else's games or viewership. For example we'd have 2000 viewers, TS would have 20K at the same time. The whole room would be about 25K. NRS games would also equal 10% of the event turnout, ie 100 players for NRS if there were 1000 at the event, 50/500 etc. I've pointed out also, that FGC numbers are/were about 10% of sports, smaller compared to FPS, and even smaller compared to RTS. The sponsored payouts also reflect that ratio but it's starting to change,
     
    #63
    Icy Black Deep likes this.
  14. SM StarGazer

    SM StarGazer The voice of reason in a Sea of Salt

    Now Imagine if Spawn was released for any of those events. Triple the number plz.
     
    #64
    Shock likes this.

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