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How does MK11 neutral differ from other fighting games?

SuppaSapien3

Chipotle and Olive Garden are NOT authentic
Hiya. I believe this question was asked on another post, but can't seem to find it. I though there would be more discussion about this topic floating around, but it escapes me like 300 dollars on tax refund day. Anyways, I am a Street Fighter player coming into my first MK game, and the game is a weird adjustment for me with the high attacks whiffing, a huge amount of normals being disadvantaged on block, and generally halting movement with a block button. What is the general game plan/game theory (emphases on theory) one should take upon approaching this game , specifically in neutral, and how is it different from other fighters, like ex. Street Fighter, Marvel vs. Series, Tekken, etc.?
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
The main thing is not having proximity block, which means that you hit the button when you expect an attack to come, rather than just holding back.

The other difference is that since whole strings come out on whiff, you can whiff punish your opponent by advancing with a full string rather than just catching their normal with your first button and hitconfirming single strikes into a combo. It also means that if they commit to multiple links, you have more time to see it coming and punish. You just have to space yourself a little differently given that you’re often (but not always) baiting their string as it advances, rather than just their first button.

But a lot of the basic principles are the same. You’re trying to space yourself so that your opponent is just out of range, bait the whiff, and punish them. Watch some top players play and I bet you’ll adjust to what’s going on pretty quickly.

Street Fighter is probably the best comparison, as this is still a walking-based neutral instead of crazy superjumps/flying/assists/mobility like Marvel or Anime.
 
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Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
I sucked at Street Fighter but I did play it a little bit. I would say a lot of things sort of correlate between the two. Shimmies can work in both, and in both it's all about baiting a whiff or throwing out your attacks to keep your opponents on the back foot.

Most strings in Mk11 are negative (the positive ones can almost always be flawless blocked on the last hit) which means that if you block an opponents blockstring it should be your turn. A lot of times throw reversals are a great option just to keep them from throwing out really good footsie tools, but you always have to be aware of them neutral ducking and D2 KBing for a full combo punish on the throw. You can also use a poke to keep them honest, but good players will punish you if you mash it. You can also always just use the frame advantage to walk back and reposition yourself if you want.

Another thing to keep in mind is that backdashes in this game are pretty trash, so you should never use them to try and get out of pressure. If you need to move backwards walking back is usually the better option imo. Wavedashing is also a pretty good tool for getting in quickly but it can be kind of hard to execute.

I would say in terms of neutral there aren't a huge amount of differences to street fighter though. Use your walkspeed to stay in range of your moves, out of the range of your moves, bait whiff punishes and use your moves to control the space you can. You can also tap block when walking or press it on reaction if you see them do a move that you're in range of.
 

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
I am no master to Street Fighter but I'll do my best to define what is different.

MK11 is based off footsie and normals are not like 2D fighters but more similar to 3D fighter buttons. It's a strange adjustment but a fun one.
Pokes are the fastest moves at 6-12f startup. The most common fast poke is D1 at 7 frame average. With a few characters having a 6f poke. They are -3 to -8 on block. Most D1 pokes are -3/-5 on block.
Jumps can escape pokes(character dependant).
Huge focus on staying at max footsie range to reduce opponents options to put you in guess situations and baiting out thier Normals to wiff since the strings come out on wiff leaving attacker vulnerable.
Most characters have the following tools to open up your opponent:
  • number of hit guess (112/11/1)
  • staggers ( moves that are plus on block to -3 on block) are used to follow up with walk back wiff punish or another fast mid/mix-up.
  • 50/50s (overhead or Low mix up) most characters have one safe mix-up while the opposite is unsafe on block.
  • wiff punishing at footsie range.
  • poke war, D1, D3 and D4 are used to block check opponent. On block it's thier turn, on hit it's your turn and most pokes are +10 on hit allowing powerful mids, lows, Overheads and highs to be jailed or used after to catch your opponent mashing out of turn.
  • Throw mix, every character has a back throw and forward throw. They are all high attacks that do about 14% on hit, some leave opponent close to loop more and some reset neutral. Very powerful and require opponent to guess forward or back tech. They can be evaded by neutral jump, crossovers, D2, crouch.
  • Command Grab & Ticks, every one is different, some are highs and many are mid. The ones that are mid can only be jumped as counter. All if them can be used after normals on block to catch them with CG creating another opener and guess.
This game is about, close up knowledge (poke war), spacing (Footsies), reaction, ability to adapt on the fly, wiff Punishes and making reads.

Hope this was helpful
 

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
Hiya. I believe this question was asked on another post, but can't seem to find it. I though there would be more discussion about this topic floating around, but it escapes me like 300 dollars on tax refund day. Anyways, I am a Street Fighter player coming into my first MK game, and the game is a weird adjustment for me with the high attacks whiffing, a huge amount of normals being disadvantaged on block, and generally halting movement with a block button. What is the general game plan/game theory (emphases on theory) one should take upon approaching this game , specifically in neutral, and how is it different from other fighters, like ex. Street Fighter, Marvel vs. Series, Tekken, etc.?
This game only has a limited neutral, really.
There are a lot of advancing moves that launch, mainly in the top tier.
It's a lot less honest and while the mid/low tier characters genuinely need to work for their space, characters like Scorpion can just grab it for free.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
This game only has a limited neutral, really.
There are a lot of advancing moves that launch, mainly in the top tier.
It's a lot less honest and while the mid/low tier characters genuinely need to work for their space, characters like Scorpion can just grab it for free.
???

The supposed top tier don’t have strings that advance nearly as far as others in the game. Most of them are considered good because of 1) Zoning options combined with 2) What happens when they’re close to you and 3) Damage/krushing blows

You still have to play neutral to play any of those characters in the mid range, though.
 
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GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
???

The supposed top tier don’t have stringsthat advance nearly as far as others in the game. Most of them are considered good because of 1) Zoning options combined with 2) What happens when they’re close to you and 3) Damage/krushing blows

You still have to play neutral to play any of those characters in the mid range, though.
Not really. Scorpion can full combo punish you with mb teleport for whiffing a d4.
 
I cannot comprehend how throws work in this game. Or maybe the online lag has gotten so bad that I am left with the following questions.

Am I correct to think that you can crouch throws at point blank range if you aren't blocking? I can't understand how this makes sense

How is it possible to reversal throw punish someone but they're able to tech out of it?