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How do you play Ancestral Gift?

S

SaLB71

Noob
Hello everyone, I´ve been trying to play Nightwolf Ancestral gift the last month, and after about 300 games, I can not find a way to play this variation.

I think the main reason to use Ancestral gift is the pressure and oki you get from the command grab, but as the opponent has so many defensive options on wake up (U2 - U3, delayed wake up, wake up jump) I´m always being punished for my game and at the end I give up all pressure on oki and I´m left with no many options on the neutral.

My main offensive options are:

b34 1+3
dash throw
d3 CMD grab
d3 11 CMD grab (on block)
d3 112
d3 111 bf4
b13 on oki and on whiff
f2121 and f2121cmdgrab on block

I would really appreciate any help or advice since I don´t know what to do with Ancestral gift and I really like this variation/character.
 
Wigy

Wigy

There it is...
I'm the same. Don't know why I wouldnt just do 111 staggers and grab people on his variation instead.

If you disrespect it in that one he gets a full combo. In his command grab variation he gets very little.
 
Dayvon

Dayvon

Noob
I don’t play Nightwolf but I find it unrewarding and difficult to use command grabs on oki as well. Like you mentioned the opponents has so many options.
Is the command grab a high or mid?
 
M

Mr_Aladdin_Sir

Noob
I play a lot of ancestral gift and I think your issue is related to trying to oki pressure too much, or potentially committing too hard when you do pressure. Most of NW strings are death on whiff so conditioning is pretty important.

To start, watch some NW v1 gameplay and take note of how often staggers can result in throw opportunities. Every decent stagger leaves you in throw range. NW in either variation gets a lot of mileage out of throws in general, what you get for picking v2 is that those throws are untechable.

Then, think about using those staggers to get into tick throw scenarios. 111 is your friend, 1 and 11 both tick and (the important part) 111 is hit confirmable on the second hit, start to build an offence around the fact that every time your opponent blocks a standing 1 they have to guess between 1-tick and 111 (shoulder on hit). Every time they guess wrong its ~150hp and they are -16.

v2 also buys you a nice meterless counterpoke for a nice 20% in b341+3 so there is that.

I'm not saying never pressure on oki, but I am saying it sounds like you are too eager and getting blown up for it. for the first 2 or 3 knockdowns when I'm playing, I just run up block to get some data on what you are up against. Worst case scenario you end up back in neutral with a character who is pretty above average in neutral
 
djynn

djynn

hsu hao main
I try and use grab vs b3 string mixup pretty heavy. Also if you're playing against someone stagger heavy and you get a read 22 1+3 is almost free. and don't forget about the 111 tic mixup of course
 
Art Lean

Art Lean

Noob
I literally have no idea what this thread is about?! I've read it three or four times and it's all just utter gibberish :confused:

What can I say, I'm pushing 40 and play MK11 like I'm playing MK1 or 2 and my typical play style is still the 90s method of "stun move + uppercut = repeat until win"

I was actually delighted that MK11 brought back a lot of MK2 commands like Kung Lao's flying kick just as they were on the SNES controller... its actually felt the most classic "Mortal Kombat" control style since MK4 :rolleyes:
 
M

Mr_Aladdin_Sir

Noob
Art Lean said:
I literally have no idea what this thread is about?! I've read it three or four times and it's all just utter gibberish :confused:

What can I say, I'm pushing 40 and play MK11 like I'm playing MK1 or 2 and my typical play style is still the 90s method of "stun move + uppercut = repeat until win"

I was actually delighted that MK11 brought back a lot of MK2 commands like Kung Lao's flying kick just as they were on the SNES controller... its actually felt the most classic "Mortal Kombat" control style since MK4 :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
We are talking about the underlying stuff in all fighters that helps you know when the right time to use your stun move or your uppercut is. Frame data (the -16 I referred to before) is what determines who gets hit and who doesn't when both players press the uppercut button at the same time. (or at least think they did). Its refreshing to see someone on these kind of forums just having fun dude, you do you. I'm happy to help you learn more if you want to get deeper into the mechanics, though.
 
S

SaLB71

Noob
Mr_Aladdin_Sir said:
I play a lot of ancestral gift and I think your issue is related to trying to oki pressure too much, or potentially committing too hard when you do pressure. Most of NW strings are death on whiff so conditioning is pretty important.

To start, watch some NW v1 gameplay and take note of how often staggers can result in throw opportunities. Every decent stagger leaves you in throw range. NW in either variation gets a lot of mileage out of throws in general, what you get for picking v2 is that those throws are untechable.

Then, think about using those staggers to get into tick throw scenarios. 111 is your friend, 1 and 11 both tick and (the important part) 111 is hit confirmable on the second hit, start to build an offence around the fact that every time your opponent blocks a standing 1 they have to guess between 1-tick and 111 (shoulder on hit). Every time they guess wrong its ~150hp and they are -16.

v2 also buys you a nice meterless counterpoke for a nice 20% in b341+3 so there is that.

I'm not saying never pressure on oki, but I am saying it sounds like you are too eager and getting blown up for it. for the first 2 or 3 knockdowns when I'm playing, I just run up block to get some data on what you are up against. Worst case scenario you end up back in neutral with a character who is pretty above average in neutral
Click to expand...
Thanks for your answer. I´ve been pressuring on oki a lot less than before. Now I know why it´s inferior to matoka warrior. Not having big combos and not being able to enforce pressure on oki hurts too much.
 
M

Mr_Aladdin_Sir

Noob
SaLB71 said:
Thanks for your answer. I´ve been pressuring on oki a lot less than before. Now I know why it´s inferior to matoka warrior. Not having big combos and not being able to enforce pressure on oki hurts too much.
Click to expand...
I would hesitate to say inferior, but would absolutely agree with much harder.

On paper (or at a level way above mine) there isn't a great reason to end up getting hit by makota warrior. Ancestral Gift has the opportunity to open up opponents way more often, and usually opportunities to deal damage trump big combos as you level up. I wouldn't give up on oki pressure, just don't commit to more than 1 button so whiffing isnt death. Or delay your oki slightly so that it covers more options.

At the end of the day getting wakeupU3 is just not a big deal getting wakeupU2'd is often your own fault, the killers are rolls and delays. At the highest level I've seen the go to oki be just a meaty d3, because it covers most everything without exposing you too hard. And that is in v1, in v2 d3 can tick and on block d3 spaces you out for a b3 counterpoke. You have really good options for oki in V2, but I suspect you are going for the high risk stuff too often.

and additional thought edit: my big gripe with v2 is that beating wakeup jump seems hard. The only mid string that seems to capture air juggles is f2121 and that loses to nearly every other wakeup option. I bet I can get something of and air juggle d3, but I havent bothered to do the lab work/research yet
 
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