Question - Cassie Cage How do you handle the shinnok MU

[GAV]

just cuz cassie has a rough time don't mean shinnok should be nerfed, besides majority of this game seems to be rock paper scissors format anyways.

Grind it out mang.

That's not the way things work here.

 

[Addhad]

Play ermac

 

[RetroPhysic]

oh btw I'm not asking for shinnok nerfs, I was just wondering how other people deal with the mu to see if I was missing something.

 

[Scott The Scot]

Hate bringing up old threads but it's like the perfect place to talk about vs Shinnok lol. I just started labbing this MU because it's tough.

First off, I'm talking Imposter in this post. Let me address Hellsparks. You can jump or B12 through them at the right spacing and timing. I refuse to believe you can just do it on raw reaction like some people have said you can. That's definitely a bill. You need to know it's coming so it's on a read. The second hell spark is too high to jump over and the first hellspark comes out in like 13 frames. But it's still something at least. Here's where you should be standing when Shinnok does the sparks if you want to jump it:

Anywhere from where Cassie stands to where my holographic Cassie stands lol. That's roughly the range where you want to stand. It'll look closer when the Camera zooms when you stand closer.

Next, F22. Shinnok has to risk quite a lot when using F22. All specials beside mimicri jails from it and it's -8. Meaning as a Cassie you can option select a meterless flip every time he does it and the only way he can stop that meterlessly is if he uses Mimici which is -17 and a full combo punish (run~242 punish, I should add). If he wants to be safe and punish you for it then he has to cancel into EX Mimicri and as far as I know he can't combo from that midscreen, so he only gets 12% and has wasted a bar.
When Shinnok uses F224 oh it's party time all. You can get a reversal EX Nut Punch/OH Tackle/Glow Kick to punish every time since it's -18 itself and has a gap cancelled into most of his specials. The only way for him to remain safe after using this string is if he cancels into EX Hellsparks and THEN meter burns them. So 2 bars just to be safe and it's not even from a mixup!! LMAO!!

That's all I have for now, it's still early and I have a LOT to explore in this MU yet. This is only my initial findings so if I made a mistake then feel free to correct me or talk to me about it. Just don't be a d*** lol. If he doesn't have meter you can go ham. I think Hollywood might be the way to go in this MU. And Brawler isn't as good as Hollywood. Brawler has better oki especially in the corner since meterlessly she can set up her F44 armour breaking setups that doubles up as a hella massive guessing game: 1) will she armour break on wakeup with F44? If not will she go overhead or low? 2) If she does F44 and I block it, will she cancel it or not? 3) If she cancels it, will she do tackle or command grab?

 

[Invincible Salads]

most shinnoks cancel f22 into mb hellsparks tho, and that jails.

 

[Scott The Scot]

most shinnoks cancel f22 into mb hellsparks tho, and that jails.

That's very true. But I'm writing about strategy in the MU, and for him to even use his mid he has to spend meter to remain safe against Cassie. He can't just throw out F22, y'know? Unless he has meter or wants to make a massive risk on guessing if Cassie will OS. So Shinnok has to use a lot of meter to remain safe which is always good haha.

 

[shura30]

Let me address Hellsparks. You can jump or B12 through them at the right spacing and timing

risk/reward is not optimal
exbf4 is still the better option even tho a MB HS can blow the attempt

 

[Scott The Scot]

risk/reward is not optimal
exbf4 is still the better option even tho a MB HS can blow the attempt

It's still an option if you make the read. You get good reward for jumping hell sparks (a full jump in punch combo ie. JIP~242).

Why do you prefer EXBF4 and why do you think it's the better option? I don't see it.

 

[ArmedCalf]

If you mess up with use mobility to get around Hell Sparks, you're gonna eat 35% and I'll be safe again to do whatever. Also, most Shinnok's aren't going to use f2 against Cassie. Advancing with f2 basically says, "Yeah I'll take this risk, who needs meter right?"

 

[shura30]

It's still an option if you make the read. You get good reward for jumping hell sparks (a full jump in punch combo ie. JIP~242).

Why do you prefer EXBF4 and why do you think it's the better option? I don't see it.

Because b1 or jumpin is a read and not a reaction, exbf4 is just a fuck you shinnok with nice damage and corner carry (ofc you gotta have meter and respect the MB spark)

unless you tell me you are labbing this and it's practical I've never spent time developing the tech.

I remember an old thread with similar tech for all the roster maybe in shinnok's sub, didn't see shinnok's players calling suicide hotline because of that

 

[ArmedCalf]

Honestly like, and I don't mean to be a buzzkill, but if you do one thing wrong in this MU you could lose. Like one mistake and that could be death vs Imposter. I would 100% call it a 7-3 in my favor.

 

[Scott The Scot]

If you mess up with use mobility to get around Hell Sparks, you're gonna eat 35% and I'll be safe again to do whatever. Also, most Shinnok's aren't going to use f2 against Cassie. Advancing with f2 basically says, "Yeah I'll take this risk, who needs meter right?"

Yeah I know but the Shinnok I play againsty insists that I learn to jump over Hellsparks because it'll make the MU easier apparently. I just had to lab it, he said. So I am lol.
Isn't Shinnok a really meter dependant character?

 

[Tweedy]

I'm assuming Kotal has the same problems that Cassie does.

You can't let him land silly stuff like a stray hellspark into a full combo, figure out your best option vs instant air teleport, and go ham and cheese once you get in(ham alone isn't enough).

A lot of good Shinnok's will not EX a hellspark with meter, because they know that you'll respect it. Don't be scared to take the risk and run up B1, every once in awhile.

 

[ArmedCalf]

Yeah I know but the Shinnok I play againsty insists that I learn to jump over Hellsparks because it'll make the MU easier apparently. I just had to lab it, he said. So I am lol.
Isn't Shinnok a really meter dependant character?

Hugely meter dependent. It was a bit of sarcasm in the post. I would noooot do f2 unless I knew it was coming because I'd have to spend a bar to make it safe. -8 isn't something I wanna joke around with on Cassie.

 

[Scott The Scot]

Honestly like, and I don't mean to be a buzzkill, but if you do one thing wrong in this MU you could lose. Like one mistake and that could be death vs Imposter. I would 100% call it a 7-3 in my favor.

Yikes that's pretty bad. You're obviously a better player than myself but I would have thought it to be 6-4 in Shinnoks favour. And last time I played the MU, I played it in Spec Ops lol. Just anti air the teleport stuff and try my best to harass Shinnok with Missiles by ending combos short into Missile setups or staying out of the range of HS so when they whiff I can get a missile put in place.

Because b1 or jumpin is a read and not a reaction, exbf4 is just a fuck you shinnok with nice damage and corner carry (ofc you gotta have meter and respect the MB spark)

unless you tell me you are labbing this and it's practical I've never spent time developing the tech.

I remember an old thread with similar tech for all the roster maybe in shinnok's sub, didn't see shinnok's players calling suicide hotline because of that

I mean, it's new to me but on a read if you jump at the same time roughly that he does HS then you'll get a jump in punch. EX HS beats that option though on a read. I haven't looked into the option of EXBF4 because it's always hella slow, I'll give it a shot next time I play the MU though because I want to figure it out.

 

[ArmedCalf]

Yikes that's pretty bad. You're obviously a better player than myself but I would have thought it to be 6-4 in Shinnoks favour. And last time I played the MU, I played it in Spec Ops lol. Just anti air the teleport stuff and try my best to harass Shinnok with Missiles by ending combos short into Missile setups or staying out of the range of HS so when they whiff I can get a missile put in place.


I mean, it's new to me but on a read if you jump at the same time roughly that he does HS then you'll get a jump in punch. EX HS beats that option though on a read. I haven't looked into the option of EXBF4 because it's always hella slow, I'll give it a shot next time I play the MU though because I want to figure it out.

are you EU?

 

[Scott The Scot]

are you EU?

Yes sir, Scotland lol

 

[shura30]

I mean, it's new to me but on a read if you jump at the same time roughly that he does HS then you'll get a jump in punch. EX HS beats that option though on a read. I haven't looked into the option of EXBF4 because it's always hella slow, I'll give it a shot next time I play the MU though because I want to figure it out.

tbh I'd rather stay inside the range of the HS and either bait their MB for safety or punish the third one that will whiff 80% of the time with b1/b2

exbf4 should be used outside that range and it's very easy to time..you want to armor the second HS while rising so you'll kick his face into 242 full combo

with cassie I want to stay and play there.. BS's projectile is a bill to gunshot or IAGs and any trade is heavily against Cassie
I'm using brawler mainly lately, I've found extakedown is a decent option

 

[Scott The Scot]

tbh I'd rather stay inside the range of the HS and either bait their MB for safety or punish the third one that will whiff 80% of the time with b1/b2

exbf4 should be used outside that range and it's very easy to time..you want to armor the second HS while rising so you'll kick his face into 242 full combo

with cassie I want to stay and play there.. BS's projectile is a bill to gunshot or IAGs and any trade is heavily against Cassie
I'm using brawler mainly lately, I've found extakedown is a decent option

Alright then, I'll try out what you're saying and see how it all works out.

 

[shura30]

Alright then, I'll try out what you're saying and see how it all works out.

I believe I've sent you a FR a while ago
let's mirror our Cassies sometime

 

[Scott The Scot]

I believe I've sent you a FR a while ago
let's mirror our Cassies sometime

I'm getting better internet on I think the 13th. We'll play in a couple of weeks lol. That mirror sounds... Awful lol.

 

[thlityoursloat]

I'm getting better internet on I think the 13th. We'll play in a couple of weeks lol. That mirror sounds... Awful lol.

I played you before, too bad my internet was acting up as well so the connection was unbearable lol.

 

[Scott The Scot]

I played you before, too bad my internet was acting up as well so the connection was unbearable lol.

I play online so rarely that it must have been a while ago, I don't remember playing with you lol. Damn if your trash internet and my trash internet both connected then it must have been the worst... thing, imaginable lol.

 

[thlityoursloat]

I play online so rarely that it must have been a while ago, I don't remember playing with you lol. Damn if your trash internet and my trash internet both connected then it must have been the worst... thing, imaginable lol.

Yeah, I played Bartitsu at first then played Commando, I think, in both matches you played smoke.
I kind of felt sorry for you eating 1 frame b1s and not being able to react to Bartitu's B1/F11 mixup.

 

[Gooberking]

I've recently come to the conclusion that I am hardcore mediocre at the game. Shinnok is a very frustrating character at my level. It seems to me that he is that class of character that takes a small amount of skill to set up a game that takes an enormous amount of skill to overcome. He may be "fair" in whatever respect can be said of such things once you reach a high level, but I don't know what the hell someone who hasn't invested significantly in the game is supposed to do to deal with some of his shenanigans.

Hell Sparks is hella crazy. It sweeps the low, the mid, and the air all at once. It pushes back, and has the ability to launch. And not just launch but deliver the launchee to Shinnok's doorstep like he ordered you on Amazon. If you stay out of range he has an unblockable you better get used to dealing with, but once you respect it, you may find you are eating a traditional projectile.

I can kind of deal with some of it now, but it's tough times no matter who I use. To be fair though, the game is just tough times against a lot of people (4 me).