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Match-Up Discussion - Cassie Cage Help with grandmaster?

Wigy

There it is...
Just wondering if anybody has some specific tactics for this, really struggle, atm just going spec ops and trying to get a missle out when i think he's guna clone up.

Guns seem completely useless in this matchup, especially with ex iceball munching everything lol.

I can blow up most armoured specials on wakeup with f44 db2 but ex slide seems to beat it out which is annoying, so just gotta bait and punish
 
instant air gun shot. Clone wont block it, it hits SZ before he can ice blast/ex ice blast, punishes strings into clone cancel when you are cornered. It takes practice and great execution, but it will stop sz from hiding behind clone.

SZ loses almost every match if he hides behind clone, thats how he loses not how he wins.
 

Wigy

There it is...
instant air gun shot. Clone wont block it, it hits SZ before he can ice blast/ex ice blast, punishes strings into clone cancel when you are cornered. It takes practice and great execution, but it will stop sz from hiding behind clone.

SZ loses almost every match if he hides behind clone, thats how he loses not how he wins.
Yeah i knew wbout the instant air guns but they are seriously tricky. I was fine in mk9 with IAFB's etc but they are just really hard to get with any sort of consistency in this

In non hollywood i can see no reason that subzero cant sit behind his clone all day with the life lead.

Just lame that the only thing i can do to counter subzero seems to be very execution heavy. Its not as if once i get in its steam rolling time either, on knockdown i'm at advantage but just about all other times i'm working against the matchup.

guess i just gotta sweat practice mode.
 

Shaazzyam

undefeated online evo champion
if he's just sitting on clone waiting, he's not really getting anything. wait for him to move and catch him with b212, its super easy to hit confirm

or just be a cool guy and ex nutpunch
 
well.. you wont have any trouble anymore. whenever he puts an ice clone out you can immediately do b2 or df1 and not worry about getting frozen if hes able to block, lol.
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
do this when he combos into clone, it will work after his B12 clone setup!

if sub tries to JIP or cross over you con do things similar in this video:
and

on all of these videos i wasn't used to the AA options or anything, so forgive me for messing up on the vid, those where first time tries... i have them down now and it works 100% now!
 

DOOMSDAY-15RUS-

i'LL DESTROY YOU ALL
instant air gun shot. Clone wont block it, it hits SZ before he can ice blast/ex ice blast, punishes strings into clone cancel when you are cornered. It takes practice and great execution, but it will stop sz from hiding behind clone.

SZ loses almost every match if he hides behind clone, thats how he loses not how he wins.
She has air guns only in hollywood variation
 

shura30

Shura
do this when he combos into clone, it will work after his B12 clone setup!
this is highly unpractical
any sub will never clone at that distance

b1 and df1 don't have the frames and hitbox to go through it on any normal setup, with no advancing armored move there's little to no chance

IAG can't be the only option because, beside the high execution level required, at close range especially sub can hit (slide/duck) before the shots are even out

and any decent sub will not stay at full screen behind a clone throwing ice

also, on some situations, target painted can be redirected into the clone by simply walking back or can just be blocked safely because of no advancing options

this matchup is a bitch especially for specops
@Tom Brady can you do one of your videos?
 
b1 and df1 don't have the frames and hitbox to go through it on any normal setup
df1~gunshot (cancelled on the first hit) actually punishes b12~clone and f42~clone. Cassie has to walk a tiny bit forward though. Brawler can df1~takedown. Also one can just walk and crouch block the clone, if nothing else works.
 

shura30

Shura
df1~gunshot (cancelled on the first hit) actually punishes b12~clone and f42~clone. Cassie has to walk a tiny bit forward though. Brawler can df1~takedown. Also one can just walk and crouch block the clone, if nothing else works.
oh, thanks I tested this thoroughly today and it's viable
 

Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
Sooo have the viability of any of these options changed due to patches/sz changes?
Cassie and Sub hasn't really been touched by the patches that much for these situations, so no. You got Instant-air guns and D+F1 to get through Ice Clone. That's just the matchup, it's not ideal for Cassie but it is what it is unfortunately.
 

BigMilk

Former Divine Power Abuser
Cassie and Sub hasn't really been touched by the patches that much for these situations, so no. You got Instant-air guns and D+F1 to get through Ice Clone. That's just the matchup, it's not ideal for Cassie but it is what it is unfortunately.
How are those options vs ex clone?
 

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
this is highly unpractical
any sub will never clone at that distance
While some of the video is impractical, like Sub cloning in the corner, a lot of it is great stuff. Sub uses Clone in the neutral all the time like that, it's an excellent tootsies tool, using strings that go straight through it even with negative frames is pretty useful stuff
 

Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
How are those options vs ex clone?
I didn't say EX clone however D+F1 goes through clones and hits Sub Zero, it doesn't have to be a punish but it can be on a read that he'll try and press buttons or not block low. Instant air guns have two hits so one for breaking clone and one for hitting sub. IAG is punishable on block if I remember correctly so be aware of that! :p
 

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
You can't punish EX Clone... and you shouldn't be able to. What does he get for spending that bar? No extra damage, combo potential, launch, anything, the safety is the ONLY reason to spend a meter here, and even then it's niche as hell and still generally a bad use of meter... just accept that if SZ chooses to EX-Clone then you gotta hold that, not every move in the game is punishable, as Cassie players you should know that.... its generally a waste of a bar anyway if it makes you feel better
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
You can't punish EX Clone... and you shouldn't be able to. What does he get for spending that bar? No extra damage, combo potential, launch, anything, the safety is the ONLY reason to spend a meter here, and even then it's niche as hell and still generally a bad use of meter... just accept that if SZ chooses to EX-Clone then you gotta hold that, not every move in the game is punishable, as Cassie players you should know that.... its generally a waste of a bar anyway if it makes you feel better
i feel the same, i mean isnt it enough that a projectile takes it out?
 

Compbros

Man of Tomorrow
Spec Ops blows Grandmaster up. Regular rocket hits both clone and Subzero so there's no ice clone wall he's able to hide behind.
 
Reactions: Jer

shura30

Shura
Spec Ops blows Grandmaster up. Regular rocket hits both clone and Subzero so there's no ice clone wall he's able to hide behind.
rocket takes forever to get out (I'm looking at you, tremor)
hollywood might still be the better choice because iagb
 

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
Spec ops sucks , you'll get slided into oblivion on your rockets and he won't give a shit. The only way to destroy him is to perfect instant air guns in hollywood and just SPAM HIM until he suicides.
 

Compbros

Man of Tomorrow
rocket takes forever to get out (I'm looking at you, tremor)
hollywood might still be the better choice because iagb
It's about reads, full screen a Sub's options are mostly two fold: Clone or ice ball. If you anticipate either Sub gets hit (ball) or has to block (clone) while blowing up clone simultaneously. It forces Sub to think about their clone/ball zoning which is great for you to have them hesitating.

Spec ops sucks , you'll get slided into oblivion on your rockets and he won't give a shit. The only way to destroy him is to perfect instant air guns in hollywood and just SPAM HIM until he suicides.
You may eat a couple slides but so what? Shutting down his main game is better isn't it? Not to mention rockets can trade with slide and you can get another setup from the trade.



Edit: Here's an online set with a local player of the Michigan FGC, we've played a few offline sets so he's had to deal with Spec Ops as Grandmaster before. Go to 46:46 and look at that match, see how little he zones or wants to zone, how much he wake up slides after B124 so he doesn't have to deal with long range rockets, etc.


The match right after he tries to ice ball for zoning and gets blown up or has to block rocket while I just duck or run in afterwards. He also tries to wakeup ice clone and gets hit.
 
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