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Question Help Vs smoke

Wigy

There it is...
So... My main problems with smoke are:
1. his airgrab teleport reset thing where hes right next to you
2. when he smoke shifts backwards after you knock him down and i always end up whiffing f3 2
3. his toe pokes...

Also advice on when i block/whiff his main moves like b2 3, 3 d1 2. What i find is alot of them will throw the smokebomb at the end of b2 3 regardless if it hits, and i seem to be able to get a blockstring. Not sure what to do about 3 d1 2 though he seems to be able to toe poke outa everything.
 

Daniel Aiden

Unknown-Member31
dash block , aa , if he get next to you it's your game , Smoke it's mutch slower than cage , watch out for d4 and his b2 4 , he will try make you wiff moves to punish with smoke bomb , best wiff punisher in the game , if you get the life lead .... let him come to you . use your pokes and f3 .
 

Wigy

There it is...
I know this sounds really nooby but when i scrim with my friend and i have life lead i try to sit back but he will just keep tossing smoke bombs. I try to get in shadow kick range to scare him off doing it, is that what i should do? Also When i get knocked down and hes at jumping range what would you recommend at the moment i just tech roll back and try to bait an antiair and if he doesnt bite i move in but doesnt seem to be working well. I just read something foxy posted that D4 has enough frame advantage on hit for a f3.. I tried a couple but b2 4 seems to win especially because of the range.

I'm also scared to poke outta things cause he can follow up anything with a staggered smoke bomb.
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
Premium Supporter
I know this sounds really nooby but when i scrim with my friend and i have life lead i try to sit back but he will just keep tossing smoke bombs. I try to get in shadow kick range to scare him off doing it, is that what i should do? Also When i get knocked down and hes at jumping range what would you recommend at the moment i just tech roll back and try to bait an antiair and if he doesnt bite i move in but doesnt seem to be working well. I just read something foxy posted that D4 has enough frame advantage on hit for a f3.. I tried a couple but b2 4 seems to win especially because of the range.

I'm also scared to poke outta things cause he can follow up anything with a staggered smoke bomb.
If you have the life lead just let them throw bombs until they approach you. They don't do any chip damage. Honestly, if Smoke let's you get within sweep range Cage is at hella-advantage in that MU
 

Wigy

There it is...
but that means he could build up meter which doesnt seem sensible? My friends pretty good at approach with smoke. If i try to anti air him he will teleport just as i go to punch and hit me in the back. I think my main problem is he is jumping over my head too much and i dont know what to do about it. I would usually just up down jump punch him and combo but because its smoke and his AA is scary good its a bit daunting to risk it.
 

Wigy

There it is...
Also when is it appropriate to ball punch smoke?

Any tips on his Airgrab teleport pressure reset thing?
 

FrothyOmen

P!
Premium Supporter
Whenever you read him doing smoke away on wakeup you can punish with jip or at least green kick. You have to make smoke afraid to use that on wakeup for fear of getting comboed, so he either has to just stand up or risk a telepunch (also full punish). With the correct angle, even if smoke baits you doing a jump in to beat his smoke away, you can actually still avoid any anti-crossup he may try to use on you and combo punish him. Smoke is at a severe disadvantage when forced to get up vs. Cage; the risk/reward is heavily in Cage's favor.

Smoke is -8 after b23 and -9 after b23~sb. The latter is a just-frame punish for you with f33~nutpunch. 3d12 is 0 on block, and you've got plenty of options to beat him in the counterpoke game. Don't discount sitting there and just blocking his d1 attempt, since he's -13 on block and if he cancels to sb (interruptable) he's -9 after you block which is again a just frame combo punish OR free pressure for you.

If you get hit by a d3 from smoke just fucking EX Nutpunch his ass. Smoke is obviously going to be following up with something as that's his only viable advantage move, so once you scare him into not wanting to follow up his d3's with anything other than smoke bomb you get to put him right back into pressure again

Lots of stuff you can do here, you just gotta make the right reads on smoke as to when he's going to try throwing that sb out there off a poke

Oh and btw be wary of smoke trying to 21~sb out of f3, f3 pressure, especially if smoke is player 1. Smoke is gonna be frantic with trying to poke and get you the hell out, so you can use that to your advantage with him being -9 again.
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
Premium Supporter
but that means he could build up meter which doesnt seem sensible? My friends pretty good at approach with smoke. If i try to anti air him he will teleport just as i go to punch and hit me in the back. I think my main problem is he is jumping over my head too much and i dont know what to do about it. I would usually just up down jump punch him and combo but because its smoke and his AA is scary good its a bit daunting to risk it.
If he is tele-porting at the point where he can hit you then make a read and hold block and you can combo him with whatever punish you want. If you end in nut punch you will be right next to him and able to continue pressure..which Smoke doesn't have exceptional answers for.
 

Daniel Aiden

Unknown-Member31
bro , if you have the life lead and the smoke player wait and trow smoke bombs 1. he will get meter 2 he will lose time for a comeback . don't wait for him to have full bar , dash and block if your presure gets blocked don't try something stupid BE PATIENT , you already had your chip damage . Dont be scared to counter poke . Watch smoke frame data then watch yours.
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
Premium Supporter
If I am Cage and Smoke is throwing bombs without the life lead I could give a F less about the meter and I will just wait until he has to come in because Smoke should not be able to approach Cage easily as it will be heavy in Cage's favor with his fast normals and godlike anti-airs.
 

Wigy

There it is...
bro , if you have the life lead and the smoke player wait and trow smoke bombs 1. he will get meter 2 he will lose time for a comeback . don't wait for him to have full bar , dash and block if your presure gets blocked don't try something stupid BE PATIENT , you already had your chip damage . Dont be scared to counter poke . Watch smoke frame data then watch yours.
My problem with dashing in is that even though the bomb completely misses it still hits some of the time, guess its lag.

I'll record some gameplay and you can point out my flaws..
 
lot of smokes dash d4 hit confirm (+12) followed by b2 3(15 start up), get hit sometimes by the d4 then exnut punch(dont over do this but make them respect more), then like frothy said the same with d3. If he keeps crossing over then ex nut punch his ass. smokes chip damage sucks. If hes throwing out d3s and hes not hit confirming them,then make him pay for it, block the d3 and go straight to your f3 , a smoke isnt going to get away with a blocked d3 and going into his 15 frame b2 overhead as it wont even come out untill the 22nd frame and boom your combo. Also if he wakes up with smoke away a lot and your near him , dash b3 knocks him out of his wake up a lot of time and he'll regret spamming it. Back him into a corner and he will break and make a move , i promise you that , 9/10 smoke will either try smoke through ,jump or dash d4. If he goes for b23 then great , whiff punish him :D. Smoke players love doing 3 d1 2 then d1 (-13 on block) bait it and go f3 straight after and if he crosses over then ex nut punch (reverse input . but again this isnt something you would do everytime, baiting the d1. Smoke just like every character in the game when in the corner, i love playing vs smokes who think they cant just smoke/ ex smoke through me, cos boom free combo punish, spacing is crutial in this match up so work on that a lot as cage destroys smoke in speed. I could keep going but these are some tips that will help.
 

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
On the topic of Smoke bomb abuse, has anyone ever punished it on block with F33xxNutpunch and the Smoke player confirmed they were blocking? I always found it kinda odd that Cyrax can punish with 11xxNet but Sub-Zero can't punish with 212/22 etc despite both starters being 9 frames.

But then I've suspected for a while Cyrax's standing 1 could be active on the 8th frame in the first place. Ultimately I'm just asking if F3 can punish it and it doesn't really change the matchup since Cage want Smoke to block anyway.
 

CheapEddie

I HAVE A FACE NOW!
On the topic of Smoke bomb abuse, has anyone ever punished it on block with F33xxNutpunch and the Smoke player confirmed they were blocking? I always found it kinda odd that Cyrax can punish with 11xxNet but Sub-Zero can't punish with 212/22 etc despite both starters being 9 frames.

But then I've suspected for a while Cyrax's standing 1 could be active on the 8th frame in the first place. Ultimately I'm just asking if F3 can punish it and it doesn't really change the matchup since Cage want Smoke to block anyway.
I tested it with friend some time ago. Cage can actually punish Smoke with f33nutpunch. Kabal can do it too. U just need to be on point. :)
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
Premium Supporter
On the topic of Smoke bomb abuse, has anyone ever punished it on block with F33xxNutpunch and the Smoke player confirmed they were blocking? I always found it kinda odd that Cyrax can punish with 11xxNet but Sub-Zero can't punish with 212/22 etc despite both starters being 9 frames.

But then I've suspected for a while Cyrax's standing 1 could be active on the 8th frame in the first place. Ultimately I'm just asking if F3 can punish it and it doesn't really change the matchup since Cage want Smoke to block anyway.
I did it to Ghostface777o0o and felt like a total baller afterward. GGA Dizzy has done it to me during casuals and I gave him immediate respect.
 

Fractured_Shadow

Really likes to throw things at you.
I did it to Ghostface777o0o and felt like a total baller afterward. GGA Dizzy has done it to me during casuals and I gave him immediate respect.
Wait what? That is insane becasue smoke is -9 on a blocked smoke bomb... that literally means he input that faster than a just frame... becasue there are no frames for reaction... also why wouldn't you just 1,1 ~ NutPunch? WAAAAY easier... At least there you have 1 frame room for error...
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
Premium Supporter
Wait what? That is insane becasue smoke is -9 on a blocked smoke bomb... that literally means he input that faster than a just frame... becasue there are no frames for reaction... also why wouldn't you just 1,1 ~ NutPunch? WAAAAY easier... At least there you have 1 frame room for error...
F3 is a just frame punish against SB. Doing 11 only saves you 1 frame, and is a much harder hit confirm than F33~NP. If you throw out 11NP and it does not hit you are the winner of an all inclusive trip to Reset World.

I will take the guaranteed pressure off a F3 on block against Smoke any time, the just frame punish is only the icing on the cake. So no, it is not insane at all.
 

Wigy

There it is...
Its the fear of blocking d3 cause the overhead f2 :(
Do i just sort of cautiously block it like mileena's u4 and b3.

Im hearing ex nut punch for crossovers, anybody got a good clip or something of it being done i have troubles pulling that off
 

Wigy

There it is...
Any smoke's wana play, maybe from the UK? Only uk player i know from here is foxy and he puts his dicks in my bumhole
 

Fractured_Shadow

Really likes to throw things at you.
F3 is a just frame punish against SB. Doing 11 only saves you 1 frame, and is a much harder hit confirm than F33~NP. If you throw out 11NP and it does not hit you are the winner of an all inclusive trip to Reset World.

I will take the guaranteed pressure off a F3 on block against Smoke any time, the just frame punish is only the icing on the cake. So no, it is not insane at all.
Meh....I guess I'm just programmed to punish with 1,1~NutPunch becasue of playing reptiles all day... My roomate mains Smoke so I get quite a few sets in against Smoke within a week and I find that 1,1~SmokeBomb is rather easy to pull off, however I normally only try it only when I have two bars to break in case I screw up...That being said, the smoke has no idea how to play Cage if he is SmokeBombing pointblank on Cage :confused:
 

Fractured_Shadow

Really likes to throw things at you.
Its the fear of blocking d3 cause the overhead f2 :(
Do i just sort of cautiously block it like mileena's u4 and b3.

Im hearing ex nut punch for crossovers, anybody got a good clip or something of it being done i have troubles pulling that off
DO NOT block low agaisnt Smoke for any reason... if the Smoke is trying stupid S2 or incomplete string pressure (3, D1...3, D1, 2, 3, 2...ect) or just trying to play footsies in gerneral just ExNutpunch that shit....