Help Please - Blockstrings & Hit Confirms

[MEJBelloz]

Hello everyone!

Hoping someone could help me clarify something, but however I will need to describe it in terms of Street Fighter 5 (I believe this concept works for all fighting games, but giving myself a break from INJ2 currently).

So I've been working through Joe Munday's Gief's Gym guide to try and finally learn some fundamentals instead of just learning a combo and jumping-in all the time. I have recently learnt how to hit-confirm for Nash (cr.mp, st.mp xx sonic scythe) - if I recognise my cr.mp has hit, I finish my combo, however if it is blocked I stop the string at the cr.mp so I'm not punished.

What I am noticing is that if I stop my string after the cr.mp, the oppoent seems to be able to pressure me instantly, or I have not pushed myself far enough away as not to be jabbed by my opponent.

In the guide it doesn't mention anything other than stop at cr.mp if you recognise that it is blocked - but from what I see other people do, they seem to complete strings that when I block, they are pushed outside of my quick punish range.

So my question.... once I hit confirm the cr.mp has blocked should I be changing the end of the string based on the circumstance (e.g. end with a push back string, or safe special if blocked), or should I still be stopping on the cr.mp when blocked?

Hope this makes sense!

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

Hello everyone!

Hoping someone could help me clarify something, but however I will need to describe it in terms of Street Fighter 5 (I believe this concept works for all fighting games, but giving myself a break from INJ2 currently).

So I've been working through Joe Munday's Gief's Gym guide to try and finally learn some fundamentals instead of just learning a combo and jumping-in all the time. I have recently learnt how to hit-confirm for Nash (cr.mp, st.mp xx sonic scythe) - if I recognise my cr.mp has hit, I finish my combo, however if it is blocked I stop the string at the cr.mp so I'm not punished.

What I am noticing is that if I stop my string after the cr.mp, the oppoent seems to be able to pressure me instantly, or I have not pushed myself far enough away as not to be jabbed by my opponent.

In the guide it doesn't mention anything other than stop at cr.mp if you recognise that it is blocked - but from what I see other people do, they seem to complete strings that when I block, they are pushed outside of my quick punish range.

So my question.... once I hit confirm the cr.mp has blocked should I be changing the end of the string based on the circumstance (e.g. end with a push back string, or safe special if blocked), or should I still be stopping on the cr.mp when blocked?

Hope this makes sense!

That’s where you have to learn your frame data and apply that knowledge. Nash’s cr.mp is +2 on block so you can poke with a light after which should interrupt any attempts of your opponents to mash out normals of their own. If you condition your opponent with the knowledge that they can’t mash out it opens up more possibilities for you from there, like throws or slower normals.

So what you’re noticing isn’t necessarily people doing strings with the intentions of leaving you outside of your quick punish range because it’s doubtful they’re even ending in punishable moves regardless of range (more reason to study frame data). They’re probably just using as many normals as they can that take advantage of their plus frames until they’re out of range of being able to do so any more in order to condition you to know you can’t poke out without risk of any of those buttons catching you.

Hope that makes sense!

 

[MEJBelloz]

That’s where you have to learn your frame data and apply that knowledge. Nash’s cr.mp is +2 on block so you can poke with a light after which should interrupt any attempts of your opponents to mash out normals of their own. If you condition your opponent with the knowledge that they can’t mash out it opens up more possibilities for you from there, like throws or slower normals.

So what you’re noticing isn’t necessarily people doing strings with the intentions of leaving you outside of your quick punish range because it’s doubtful they’re even ending in punishable moves regardless of range (more reason to study frame data). They’re probably just using as many normals as they can that take advantage of their plus frames until they’re out of range of being able to do so any more in order to condition you to know you can’t poke out without risk of any of those buttons catching you.

Hope that makes sense!

Thanks for taking the time to reply....

Everything I read indicates that when I do cr.mp into s.mp, if the cr.mp is blocked, I should end the string immediately after the s.mp (leaving me at neutral frames)... but this doesn't push me into a safe range...

Are you saying that when I recognise the cr.mp is blocked I shouldn't be stopping after the s.mp and instead use another button which should push me away further?

I suppose what I am getting at is whether on a blocked/hit-confirm c.mp... should I be ending the string differently (e.g. cr.mp, s.mp xx sonic scythe - hit.... vs. cr.mp, s.mp xx ??? on block)?

Feel like I'm talking gibberish now

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

Thanks for taking the time to reply....

Everything I read indicates that when I do cr.mp into s.mp, if the cr.mp is blocked, I should end the string immediately after the s.mp (leaving me at neutral frames)... but this doesn't push me into a safe range...

Are you saying that when I recognise the cr.mp is blocked I shouldn't be stopping after the s.mp and instead use another button which should push me away further?

I suppose what I am getting at is whether on a blocked/hit-confirm c.mp... should I be ending the string differently (e.g. cr.mp, s.mp xx sonic scythe - hit.... vs. cr.mp, s.mp xx ??? on block)?

Feel like I'm talking gibberish now

No problem, dude!

You end at the st.mp because it’s neutral, so it’s safe automatically regardless of range and how you can continue from there would be match-up dependent.

You’re only unsafe when you end with a move that’s more negative than the start-up frames of something your opponent can reach you with (which is why you only do the Sonic scythe on hit and not block, because that move is punishable).

What you can do when you’re neutral depends on the opponent so that’s where you’d end it in this case. If your fastest light is four frames and you’re fighting someone with a three framer, they could blow you up for trying to poke again there, for example.

So you generally wanna end your block strings in the last button/move you can pull off that’s safe against the whole cast that can’t be followed up safely against the whole cast, if that makes sense. Once you learn that sequence you can learn who you can follow that up against and how, or what you can get away with if you stop it short because they expect the whole string, etc.

 

[MEJBelloz]

No problem, dude!

You end at the st.mp because it’s neutral, so it’s safe automatically regardless of range and how you can continue from there would be match-up dependent.

You’re only unsafe when you end with a move that’s more negative than the start-up frames of something your opponent can reach you with (which is why you only do the Sonic scythe on hit and not block, because that move is punishable).

What you can do when you’re neutral depends on the opponent so that’s where you’d end it in this case. If your fastest light is four frames and you’re fighting someone with a three framer, they could blow you up for trying to poke again there, for example.

So you generally wanna end your block strings in the last button/move you can pull off that’s safe against the whole cast that can’t be followed up safely against the whole cast, if that makes sense. Once you learn that sequence you can learn who you can follow that up against and how, or what you can get away with if you stop it short because they expect the whole string, etc.

Makes perfect sense.... thanks for the help!!

I need to start looking at frame data it seems so I clearly understand where I am safe and that.

So my guess is I could XX from cr.mp, s.mp into Moonsault Slash as if this is blocked I am still on plus frames (1 frame for LM version? Which If I then jab, and they jab, I should get a frame trap (if the move they use to poke is more than 3 frames)?

 

[neveradestroyer]

Set AI into random block in practice mode.. for the string that You want to hit confirm. Do it until becomes muscle memory. I hope it helps.

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

Makes perfect sense.... thanks for the help!!

I need to start looking at frame data it seems so I clearly understand where I am safe and that.

So my guess is I could XX from cr.mp, s.mp into Moonsault Slash as if this is blocked I am still on plus frames (1 frame for LM version? Which If I then jab, and they jab, I should get a frame trap (if the move they use to poke is more than 3 frames)?

Any time! And yep, exactly; once you’ve got your airtight block string down, that’s when you can start figuring out what you can do to embellish it from there, and in this case the occasional cancel into moonsault slash to keep opponents on their toes (and potentially lead to more offense if you do catch them sleeping) is a prime choice.

Just keep in mind that they can interrupt that move so it isn’t technically part of your block string itself, just an option to go to next from there. If you play someone who doesn’t seem to know how to interrupt it and just sits there and holds it every time, abuse it until they learn, and if you play someone who jabs you out of it every time, start thinking of alternate routes instead.

You’re definitely getting it. The main thing to keep in mind about block strings is that they’re a series of moves that characters can’t mash out of and that leave you at least safe afterward. Everything else is icing.