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Question - Shirai Ryu Have you thought about switching to Scorpion?

aieches

#freeHomelee2016
They are two totally different characters and play with 2 VERY different playstyles.

It's almost asking why you'd play Guile when you can just play Zangief.

Takeda controls space and controls the neutral game in ways that no other character can. He has high damage output, as well as some of the highest unbreakable damage. Did I mention that he can control space simply from the threat of attacks?

Is takeda better than scorpion? No, but that's not a reason to play scorpion. If we had this mind state everyone would just play tempest kung or bojutsu jin.

Takeda is not a rushdown character. Sure, he has options to rushdown but he shines more when he is at mid range.

Scorpion is a rushdown character.. At least in ninjutsu or hellfire. He has to get all his damage from ranges in which most other characters get their damage.

See what I'm saying? Anyway if u wanna drop takeda for scorpion go ahead. I don't think anyone would stop you lol
thanks for the input, great points made - plus nobodys dropping takeda. :) ..
i know they have their different styles but out of all Takedas variations, i like SR the best for the moves it has- BUT -along side scorpions move set - a lot of the SHIRAI RYU moves i feel scorpion makes out a bit better with by comparison ( not all but a few)

and also, they are a bit more alike than Guile an Zangief... lol i mean at least use guile and charlie..lol or lets use the Shotos
Ken Ryu Akuma Goulen, Sean, Dan, etc - They all have the same fighting ansatsuken( Shotokan )
but play differently - just as much as SR takeda and Scorpion- YET- the balance for what each character brings to the table is debatable..
i mean look at the Ryu vs E. Ryu vs Akuma/Gouki vs Oni debates.... each player base has their own POV as to why which variation is better etc.. its all suggestive though. same as this thread.. But in street fighter, there is a different Footsies/ damage/meta system that rewards some versions in compensation for what they lack. MKX doesnt really cater to some of the benefits that SR takeda has over the SR moves that scorpion does. IMO
i agree 100% that takeda is not rush down- pressure yes, but rush down no, and with that being said MKX as of how the game is being playing now does not give a lot of time for patience in most match ups.
 

Bender

Product Manager. xBone tag: I3end3r.
i feel you are right abot scorpions vortex- without it , i can see him dropping a few places def but actually i think if Takeda had a vortex he would be OP. - and i think thats one of the big probs with Takeda.. its hard to decide what to give him extra as one simple thing can just jump him straight to the top then he will be nerfed back down to hell cause of complaints to a shell of himself.

i dont really rate tiers as much as i do catarogize people im scared of.
im scared of high level Scorps , raidens, quan chis, sonyas, ermacs, kung jins
a high level takeda im not really scared of- more curious - maybe it because i play as him i dunno.. but Takeda with a vortex i dont think id even wanna have mirror matches with that SOB hahaha,

now SR takeda with another low starter that doesnt show a damn running animation that im attacking low .... hmmmmm.... :)
I dunno, if you made his EX spear into a vortex, I don't think it would be that OP. His initial 50/50 is pretty bad, it's more of the followup pressure that is hard to deal with.

I don't like the idea at all (in general, I dislike Vortexes and think Quanchi should be the only vortex character), but it would bump him up to a high A+/ S level character.

I agree - I play worse against characters I'm scared of than high tier characters. My short list is Scorpian, Ermac, Raiden, Grandmaster Sub, Kung Lao and Koto Kahn (Warhgod). Would rather play a good Erron Black or Divorah any day of the week
 

aieches

#freeHomelee2016
Haha! You know I'm not gunna give legit reasons why Scorpions boring. He's not really. Takeda is just some much cooler. I can give my opinions on what makes him better though:

Number 1: Sheer damage into resets.
I can't name many characters that get the damage Takeda gets without damage buffs while consistently being able to end his max damage combos within range off his 50/50 which just so happens to be pretty far for character who lack the same range..

Number 2: Style
What's really cooler than Takeda's air teleport, air spear, whip combos that throw you back and forth constantly guessing where the combo will leaving you? And half screen overhead whip moves?? I mean.. Let's be honest TYM.. you've either played Takeda or secretly want to play Takeda but because you're a proclaimed "against the grain low tier struggler" or a "tournment jockey tier whore" and you refuse to jump on the bandwagon or you're scared to play a mid tier character.

Either way you envy us!! lol!

hahah yes i made sure to post that Takeda does have the better looking combos. some times i hear people bitching through the mic when i do mid combo ex air spear into and im like "how could you not like that ? That was beautiful!" lol
although yest i messed up and put myself in the corner against JAX with the normal air spear... long story short the next round didnt last very long in the corner.. think i touched the ground once .
so its not always nice ....lol
 

aieches

#freeHomelee2016
I dunno, if you made his EX spear into a vortex, I don't think it would be that OP. His initial 50/50 is pretty bad, it's more of the followup pressure that is hard to deal with.
Do you mean with a restand? or just a pull in closer like scorpions? either way if it lead to vortex it would be pretty nasty.. Takeda would be hated as much as people hate Subzero lol

I don't like the idea at all (in general, I dislike Vortexes and think Quanchi should be the only vortex character), but it would bump him up to a high A+/ S level character. im cool with vortex(s) as long as there is execution needed. and even then they should do good damage but not great damage.

I agree - I play worse against characters I'm scared of than high tier characters. My short list is Scorpian, Ermac, Raiden, Grandmaster Sub, Kung Lao and Koto Kahn (Warhgod). Would rather play a good Erron Black or Divorah any day of the week
Erron black is a so so on my list.. just becuase he is another character who i feel have everything in one package. but i will NOT play vs anybody that is using him and has less than full bars for a connection.. Aint nobody got time for dat! its bloody terrible. ...
multiquoting on my tablet doesnt seem to be working sorry but i have to do it this way
 

Slips

Feared by dragons. Desired by virgins.
It's one thing to say that Scorp is a better character, which I agree he is overall, but it's another to say Scorp is a completely better version of Takeda. Takeda has similar moves with different properties, therefore making him pretty unique in comparison to Scorp.

Takeda's footsies are waaaay better than Scrops.

Takeda's tele is slower than Scorp's, but it much better on whiff, making it also useful for mobility purposes.

Takeda has launching armor. (Scorp's tele only has armor on wakeup.)

Takeda's throw wakeups are better than Scorp's.

Now granted, Scorp is better than Takeda because of his massive damage, vortex, and pressure. But Takeda definitely brings things to the table that Scorp does not. So to say Scorp is just a better version of Takeda I'd say is not a fair statement.
 

aieches

#freeHomelee2016
It's one thing to say that Scorp is a better character, which I agree he is overall, but it's another to say Scorp is a completely better version of Takeda. Takeda has similar moves with different properties, therefore making him pretty unique in comparison to Scorp.

Takeda's footsies are waaaay better than Scrops.

Takeda's tele is slower than Scorp's, but it much better on whiff, making it also useful for mobility purposes.

Takeda has launching armor. (Scorp's tele only has armor on wakeup.)

Takeda's throw wakeups are better than Scorp's.

Now granted, Scorp is better than Takeda because of his massive damage, vortex, and pressure. But Takeda definitely brings things to the table that Scorp does not. So to say Scorp is just a better version of Takeda I'd say is not a fair statement.
i didnt say Scorpion was a better version of takeda. if it came off that way then my mistake and also all these points are also in my OP.
the question i was posting was more hypothetical i guess...
just more wanted to hear from those who wont make the switch and why and from those that have made the switch while also learning all that i can
 
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Vagrant

Noob
This isn't like Ryu and Evil Ryu.

The two don't play anywhere near the same.

So why not scorpion? Because takeda players probably like playing takeda's game instead of scorps.

Why don't dhalsaim players play ibuki ? Proabably because the dhalsaim players like playing dhalsaim.

(And no. Before anyone freaks out. I'm not saying takeda is anything like dhalsaim.)
 
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Slips

Feared by dragons. Desired by virgins.
i didnt say Scorpion was a better version of takeda. if it came off that way then my mistake and also all these points are also in my OP.
the question i was posting was more hypothetical i guess...
I mean yea, Scorp is better overall. A lot of characters are better than Takeda. Why not just make a thread asking , 'Honestly, why not Raiden?' Or D'Vorah, or Erron Black or Quan Chi ect.

Yea you didn't say directly that Scorpion is a better version of Takeda, but when you compare tool for tool that's kind what this thread suggests lol.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Someone already said it but Takeda has the edge in the damage department.
He doesn't. Hellfire scorpion is doing 40+% for a bar into 10% uninterruptible chip on a touch. With an easy reset where you have to guess into another possible 40%. He can set the chip up with a meterless combo for 30% into 10% chip as well.

Scorpion's damage output per time is lethal and it's definitely one of the things that makes him an extremely strong character.

I still love Takeda, though :)
 
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aieches

#freeHomelee2016
I mean yea, Scorp is better overall. A lot of characters are better than Takeda. Why not just make a thread asking , 'Honestly, why not Raiden?' Or D'Vorah, or Erron Black or Quan Chi ect.

Yea you didn't say directly that Scorpion is a better version of Takeda, but when you compare tool for tool that's kind what this thread suggests lol.
okay i guess how i mean this is that All scorps varations are Shirai ryu- so all his play styles have spear , teleport, etc.. this is their fighting style..
of takedas varations only his Shirai ryu style has most moves similar to scorpions style. with a few things dropped and a few things gained. Ronin and Lasher have bits of SR but are def not as close. Now - with how the game is progressing, sometimes i do ask my self why do i play Takeda when all Scorpions vartaions have the base SR moves and then some of what i like about SR takeda. but really its hyptheitcal. i know i wont switch to scorpion as my main but i know others have and others are in the same boat as me with SR. i just wanted to hear others thoughts on it for conversational purposes or maybe to find out new tech/info in which people are using things differently in comparison. Like today i learned that scorpion lacks a Wake up ex launcher in some variations... that i didnt know- and with how much i depend on Takedas ex tele wake up and ex flurry wake up this balances the playing field on wake up options in this debate.

As someone who basically only uses scorpion with little causals and random select - on paper and what i view with him makes certain aspects of his Shirai Ryu style look more appealing than some moves in Takeda Shirai Ryu Variation --but hes also lacks a few things that Takeda thrives on in this variation so i wanted to view people take on the contrast .
 
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HeroesNZ

Baconlord's Billionaire Sugar Daddy
I don't really understand the point of this thread lol

Why play Nightwing when you can play Aquaman? Why play Guy when you can play Ibuki? Why play Cyborg when you can play Zod?

Because you like the character more or they better suit your playstyle.

Also what is this mysterious, ominous vortex I hear Scorpion has?
 

BloodyNights

"My kunai will find it's mark."
I don't like the idea at all (in general, I dislike Vortexes and think Quanchi should be the only vortex character), but it would bump him up to a high A+/ S level character.
Hey to be fair Scorpion was always a vortex character. So if anyone should be a vortex character it's him, not Quan Chi lol
 

aieches

#freeHomelee2016
I don't really understand the point of this thread lol

Why play Nightwing when you can play Aquaman? Why play Guy when you can play Ibuki? Why play Cyborg when you can play Zod?

Because you like the character more or they better suit your playstyle.

Also what is this mysterious, ominous vortex I hear Scorpion has?
i guess in a broad scheme you could say/ask that - like why not play erron black, raiden etc.. but im going just going on comparison on the Shirai Ryu styles
maybe its the thread title- there i have changed it ... It maybe just something SR takeda players will related to, i dunno..
I thought tagging the thread with the Shirai Ryu could cover that basis but i guess i i should have explained it more thoroughly.

I mearly wanted to compare this Takedas SR variation VS Scorpion (all styles are SR) and see why people have switched- why they wont switch, thoughts, comments, new info, etc really anything..
 

Harlequin969

Always press buttons
I personally love the hell out of Takeda and he's tied with Ermac for me. However I've messed with Scorpion a bit and Scorpion I think personally has a better damage potential than Takeda because his damage tends to be meterless. The variation I like is Hellfire and that's where I'm getting these numbers from.

But Takeda just feels right. Style, combos and flashy. All of it just feels good and Scorpion feels like a chore. If it weren't for the beady skin and flame aura I probably wouldn't have even looked twice at scorp.
 

learis1

Guardian Cadet
Interesting thread. I main ninjutsu scorpion and as I secondary I want to learn Lasher Takeda. On paper to me he seems really powerful. Nearly full screen fifty fifty mixups (when combined with his mb trip special move), that are relatively safe and he can convert into good damage.

I like poke footsie style characters which is why I play ninjutsu and why I'm thinking of playing Lasher. I don't know why so many people like shirai ryu more than lasher. To me lasher seems better, but I've never played takeda so I really don't know.
 

aieches

#freeHomelee2016
Interesting thread. I main ninjutsu scorpion and as I secondary I want to learn Lasher Takeda. On paper to me he seems really powerful. Nearly full screen fifty fifty mixups (when combined with his mb trip special move), that are relatively safe and he can convert into good damage.

I like poke footsie style characters which is why I play ninjutsu and why I'm thinking of playing Lasher. I don't know why so many people like shirai ryu more than lasher. To me lasher seems better, but I've never played takeda so I really don't know.
nobody with a reboot avatar could be wrong.. i just wanted to type that first... now i will go read what you wrote, lol


okay . well honestly with lasher new buffs i think its gonna start popping up just as much as SR. personally i will also be looking more into lasher now but before the buffs , out of the two SR just seemed more appeasing when i finally got me hands on the game.
 
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Triplswing

your soe will BERRN
Scorpion's EX telepunch has armor when used as a wakeup. So he does have a wakeup armored launcher.

Also, Takeda's cancels will never ever be on par with scorpion's FBC.

I would give Takeda screen control (keepout mainly) and unbreakable damage, as well as overheads and everything else I would say Scorpion is better.
 

virtiqaL

Noob
which scorpion var were you using the most might i ask?
Inferno, and I'm aware Hellfire is his best variation.

Scorpion overall just didn't feel 'my style' in this game, along with the fact that I tend to gravitate towards Low-Mid tier characters. I feel like I have more options with Takeda in different situations, and I definitely like having an armored launcher in this game. I felt like each of Scorp's variations were missing something.

Ninjutsu has all his best footsie/whiff punishing tools, but full-screen I feel as if I'm constantly pressured into teleporting because he lacks any real full-screen mind game without having the Hellfire ability to bait people into jumping as he could in MK9, maybe if his F2 hit overhead I'd consider maining him.

Inferno has good damage, but the matchup has been largely figured out by most, and I feel he gets easily overwhelmed by rushdown in this variant.

I could pickup Hellfire Scorp and FBRC people's faces off, but honestly that would bore the fuck out of me quickly and I wouldn't feel as if I'm accomplishing anything by doing well with it. Not to mention, until recently, we had several local Scorpion mains, so there's that.

Personally, I'd rather place respectably with a mid-tier than win a tournament with a top tier. Don't ask why, it's like I have gaming/geek equivalent of 'White Guilt' whenever I'm aware I'm playing a top-tier character.

TL;DR: I feel Shirai Ryu Takeda is more well-rounded in this single variant than Scorpion is in either of his 3 variants. I feel more comfortable with Takeda at almost any range depending on the matchup.
 

aieches

#freeHomelee2016
Inferno, and I'm aware Hellfire is his best variation.

Scorpion overall just didn't feel 'my style' in this game, along with the fact that I tend to gravitate towards Low-Mid tier characters. I feel like I have more options with Takeda in different situations, and I definitely like having an armored launcher in this game. I felt like each of Scorp's variations were missing something.

Ninjutsu has all his best footsie/whiff punishing tools, but full-screen I feel as if I'm constantly pressured into teleporting because he lacks any real full-screen mind game without having the Hellfire ability to bait people into jumping as he could in MK9, maybe if his F2 hit overhead I'd consider maining him.

Inferno has good damage, but the matchup has been largely figured out by most, and I feel he gets easily overwhelmed by rushdown in this variant.

I could pickup Hellfire Scorp and FBRC people's faces off, but honestly that would bore the fuck out of me quickly and I wouldn't feel as if I'm accomplishing anything by doing well with it. Not to mention, until recently, we had several local Scorpion mains, so there's that.

Personally, I'd rather place respectably with a mid-tier than win a tournament with a top tier. Don't ask why, it's like I have gaming/geek equivalent of 'White Guilt' whenever I'm aware I'm playing a top-tier character.

TL;DR: I feel Shirai Ryu Takeda is more well-rounded in this single variant than Scorpion is in either of his 3 variants. I feel more comfortable with Takeda at almost any range depending on the matchup.
That's respectable, I can dig that. I dont really think takeda is more well rounded than scorpion but I do understand where you are coming from . But I will say with every ones responses, I am started to get a better grasp on things I can try to personally take more advantage of with takeda that can easily get outshadowed by things he lacks. Like for one I'm def going to be cramming more unbreakable combos into my game plan. This alone is something I admit I overlook when playing as takeda and take for granite
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Scorpion's EX telepunch has armor when used as a wakeup. So he does have a wakeup armored launcher.

Also, Takeda's cancels will never ever be on par with scorpion's FBC.

I would give Takeda screen control (keepout mainly) and unbreakable damage, as well as overheads and everything else I would say Scorpion is better.
So does Takedas wakeup tele ;)