Question - Shirai Ryu Have you thought about switching to Scorpion?

[aieches]

So honest answers and please if youre coming in here just to talk shit about either or Scorpion or Takeda WITHOUT a legit reason BACKING up your claims just prepared to get ignored. Im pretty sure every one can do without random shit remarks seeing how theres enough of that on this forum else where..

now with that out of the way

As a Shairai Ryu Takeda main , the more i face the scorpion match up or take him for a spin , the more i say to myself why not just play scorpion. He basically has everything that makes me like Shirai Ryu Takeda more than the other versions of Takeda (so far) and yet most of these similar moves have an adge over takedas.
Also to add.. this is just a thread for conversation and POVs. Not asking for nerfs / buffs/ no recruiting for #teamhanzo or #teamwhips , just opinionated debates..and im def not dropping Takeda as my main

As a side by side comparison -

Spear - Scorpion i think is in favor for me, for his spear it seems to track and set up for combo without having to MB which can lead to big damage in to knock down into vortex ( which we get into later ) which in this games moves you to the topof the food chain. Takeda does have the air spear which is great BUT - feel its trajectory is mediocre at best . spears vs one is debatable though, but personally i think Scorps options with his spear ar a bit better suited for this MKX 70/30 in favor or Scorpion

Teleport - Takedas seems better on Blk recovery - BUT still @ -17 your gonna get punished anyway -Scorpions has way better advantage when it comes to continuing combos and convterting off AA. plus the fact you can use both in any order in a combo and covert off them with a bit more ease make them seem way more deadlier than Takedas.. But i REALLY like the Cross up with Takedas EX so im only gonna give this a 55/45 in favor of Scorpion.

Takedown vs Tornado kick - - guh.. this is a tuffy-- tornado kicks has got me outta some jams but takedown on paper and from what i ave seen is too clutch.. ill come back to this... 50/50 tie

Fireball/minion/hellfire/etc vs teleflurry - Scorpion hands down, the versatility of these moves in comparison is just no contests. even if you bring in other variations as lasher and blade drop. the things you can do with these W/O meter just seem way more beneficial. 75/25% scorpion favor brought to my attention that some variations of scorp have ex wake up probs - took this into consideration 55/45 scorpion now

Cancels - i think in this game scorpion has the better cancels options as the can be comboed off of and the pressure is wayyy quicker. 60/40% scorpion favor reminded that kunai cancels are $FREE.99 changed to 55/45 scorpion

Overheads - TAKEDA all day. B21 is my shit!! ( yayyy) 75/25 Takeda favor -

Normals and Air normals- scorpion edges out takeda i believe on these if i was to take all four into consideration. - eso with takedas ji2- i feel that doesnt hit anything. 65/35 Scorpion

Njp - imma rule this one in favor of Takeda- even though i do think its a bit over rated by people who dont use takeda - ( seems a bit wonky at times) i cant deny that its very good. Not Quan chi, Kung Jin, or Raiden status but still very good. 75/25 Takeda favor

screen control - With time (match time) this can def be in Takedas favor - when takeda can find the time in match to get his adequate spacing - 3/4s of the screen can be his to keep - AS LONG AS HES MAKING THE RIGHT CHOICES. so i will rate this 70/30 in takedas favor.... BUT see below

Match pace control - im giving this to scorpion all day- Scorpion seem to always set the pace of the matches - Even when im VS someone 's day one scorpion FB cancels strings, its like i have to hunt for opportunities to slow the game pace back downa bit and bring him more to Takedas speed level of playing..and i do mean hunt. Whether the player is high level or not. Also since i feel scorpion can convert and capitalize or more mistakes the player makes i feel that it doesnt hurt him as much if he throws out a wrong limb as compare to takeda ( shit trying for b21 only to get b1 is like a straight death wish) 75/25 Scorpion

Armor - I still dont understand how and when Takedas armor works. lol.. i wanna one day really see if i can get a hold of someone at NRS to go over the logistics of it but yet i also dont wanna be "that guy" thats pestering about his character when its obvious and get an answer like " thats just the way it is"
i mean someone times is works and sometimes i just get poke straight out of it . sometimes its my one hit of armor is like a guessing game as to when it will activate. So until i have a better grasp on Takedas armor i will say officially N/A but unofficially, 75/25 Scorpion favor - brought to my attention more scorpion armor probs 50/50 tie

Damage- meterless damage can be a struggle for takeda. esp trying to break high 25%. Which really sucks we you are vs say a Jason who can catch you with one easy string ( we know which one) and put you back in negative health really fast . with meter Takedas damage output is sort of close to Scorpions but def not for the same effort. i say damage is a good 65/35 Scorpion favor. -brought to my attentoin to look back into damage also didnt take into consideration Takedas Unbreakable damage. 52/48 scorpion imo now


now these are all personal opinions- and i am NOT gonna stop having takeda as my Main anytime soon at all. but when i really look at why i like to use the Shirai Ryu version over his other versions, i realize the reasons why i like this one are the very same tools that scorpion has in mostly all varitions and at lest more than half of them have a edge on Takedas..


Few reasons why i know i wont want to switch are
I like takedas design - wish his second skin was more ninja like but i really like his design & out of the new comers - hes tied with Kotal as my favs.
i will say most his bnb combos do look more entertaining than scorpions.
i like underdogs.
he has footsies ( even thought this game really doesnt cater to footsies and he can be a bit too slow for a ninja at times)
i feel scorpion moveset gets abused and can disregard footsies
everybody and their mother uses scorpion. ( sorry scorpion players but its true)
but with takeda i do feel that in time ( hopefully) we will have a major break through with him where as all the time spent hunting and grinding with him will pay off
i really do like his different take on the Shirai Ryu style but when i really sit and look at why i like his style and why it fits me i keep coming back to - well scorp has that , ... well his has that too.. etc..

( the fact hes trying to smash jacqui just seems like a plus also, lol)


i play scorpion for fun and to test out new things popping up for him every now and then but i never play serious matches with him. Always Takeda . and beside the personal reasons why - i really dont see why i dont play as him more .. Maybe we should look at Scorpion being a different variation of Takedas SR. lmao..maybe not.. i dunno.. whens tremor again?

But really what are you guys (or girls- gender equality ) thoughts on the comparisons?
what are your reasons for maining or not maining scorpion in contrast to SR takeda?
What would you rate the selections like above?


id like to hear everyones input- takeda users and scorpion users

 

[bdizzle2700]

10/10

 

[Gixxerkid66]

IKR

 

[aieches]

should i tag people in the scorpion forum?

 

[Bar_Bar13]

What is this Ninjutsu OH that you speak of?

 

[JTB123]

I main Scorpion and agree with what you've put except for armour, Ninjutsu Scorpion doesn't have an overhead though, not sure what move you're thinking of there. As for armour Takeda sort of has the upper hand by default as Scorpion doesn't have any armoured launchers outside of wake ups. Takeda's flurry is vulnerable to fast hitting strings, but that's an option Scorpion doesn't have when standing.

I was planning on playing Takeda before the game came out along with Scorpion, but Scorpion is basically just a better version of him in a lot of ways so I picked up others for secondaries.

 

[aieches]

What is this Ninjutsu OH that you speak of?

damn i have the wrong variation.. let me go back and check . my bad. i will correct this- its the one thats in one of his strings.

 

[BloodyNights]

I play both characters, and I feel like they compliment each other pretty well to be honest. I of course think Scorpion is better. However Takeda shouldn't be underestimated. He has fairly decent zoning tools, and mind games through his low projectile, and overhead whips, and air spears. He also has pretty astounding come back potential. I can't say if it's as good as Scorpion's but if your opponent messes up, you can say goodbye to 50% of their life easily, and it puts them back into Takeda's zone where plays best.

I wouldn't give up on either, might as well have student and master popping up to give people trouble lol

 

[aieches]

I main Scorpion and agree with what you've put except for armour, Ninjutsu Scorpion doesn't have an overhead though, not sure what move you're thinking of there. As for armour Takeda sort of has the upper hand by default as Scorpion doesn't have any armoured launchers outside of wake ups. Takeda's flurry is vulnerable to fast hitting strings, but that's an option Scorpion doesn't have when standing.

I was planning on playing Takeda before the game came out along with Scorpion, but Scorpion is basically just a better version of him in a lot of ways so I picked up others for secondaries.

see the thig about takedas armor is that is good. but i honestly have ZERO idea when it actually engages .. as even with the flurry it seems that sometimes i only need to be hit once to be knocked out of it.. like jax can 1 me right out of it even as im lunging forward. sometimes he has to 11. Sonya can d3 or d4 ( im not 100% which one) out of every armor i have pretty much . - i mean if i had a better idea of the engage moments then it could prob be very usefull but even when i do tests in practice mode it seems to be a bit wonky.

and the scorpion OH, ill go back and try to see in which variation it is ... i do remember its in a string. i thought it was in ninjitsu but i guess not. lol..thanks!

 

[Brown Cow 54]

Well I would play takeda if you like him and want to play takeda. Or I would play scorpion if you like him and want to play scorpion. Boom. I have solved all of your problems by using the simple method of "play whoever you enjoy playing."

 

[JTB123]

see the thig about takedas armor is that is good. but i honestly have ZERO idea when it actually engages .. as even with the flurry it seems that sometimes i only need to be hit once to be knocked out of it.. like jax can 1 me right out of it even as im lunging forward. sometimes he has to 11. Sonya can d3 or d4 ( im not 100% which one) out of every armor i have pretty much . - i mean if i had a better idea of the engage moments then it could prob be very usefull but even when i do tests in practice mode it seems to be a bit wonky.

and the scorpion OH, ill go back and try to see in which variation it is ... i do remember its in a string. i thought it was in ninjitsu but i guess not. lol..thanks!

From what I know the armour will be in the start up of move which is why it's vulnerable. Takeda's lauching armour certainly isn't great when compared to others.

The OH ender is B32F2, it gains a lot more pushback in Ninjutsu and a bit more range. Still fairly negative though.

 

[aieches]

I play both characters, and I feel like they compliment each other pretty well to be honest. I of course think Scorpion is better. However Takeda shouldn't be underestimated. He has fairly decent zoning tools, and mind games through his low projectile, and overhead whips, and air spears. He also has pretty astounding come back potential. I can't say if it's as good as Scorpion's but if your opponent messes up, you can say goodbye to 50% of their life easily, and it puts them back into Takeda's zone where plays best.

I wouldn't give up on either, might as well have student and master popping up to give people trouble lol

nice! oh and im def not leaving takeda..never - i might pick up scorpion more BUT , Takeda will prob always be my numero uno. and i def would never want to underate him.. i think he is very solid at mid tier.

As for the Comeback - i agree. i make alot of comebacks with takeda and the reason is becuase its not only me having to learn the match up but takeda seems like a charater that you also cant play two players alike. - like i couldnt play the same Takeda i would against REO's Quan chi vs Michelangelos Quan Chi ( if that makes sense) .. i really cant go into the same offensive a lot which usually means i end up giving a round just trying to figure how so and sos sonya is different than the one i just played ten minutes ago and so on. i know this is evident across all players but iwth takeda in comparison to Scorpion - i think scorpion dictates the match speed and pace with his offensive more than takeda so less coming from behind he needs to do

 

[aieches]

From what I know the armour will be in the start up of move which is why it's vulnerable. Takeda's lauching armour certainly isn't great when compared to others.

The OH ender is B32F2, it gains a lot more pushback in Ninjutsu and a bit more range. Still fairly negative though.

maybe thats the one im talking about- yeah its good- but i def wouldnt trade it for takedas b21- Takeda B21 is like my holy grail sometimes.

 

[GuerillaTactix]

Is boring an answer?? Cuz that's what scorpion is to me. lol!

 

[aieches]

0

Is boring an answer?? Cuz that's what scorpion is to me. lol!

haha it will be allowed if ONLY if you elaborate more on why .lol but i can understand how some may think this.. esp if you have been playing MK since arcades.. i have basically been playing ninjas since the frist wave of cabinets to drop
mk1 - sub and scorpion
mk2 - sub and scorpion
mk3T - c.smoke and ermac ( main kabal though)
mk4- subzero but i stopped playing as i didnt like this new direction the gamplay and visuals went.
mk9 - when i came back to MK- Reptile smoke ( pre nerf- yes i admit it) and Kabal - day one and before run cancels so im clear of all hate lol
mkx i really like scorpions design but yes with a new Shirai Ryu i welcomed the change to a fresh new ninja.

 

[BloodyNights]

nice! oh and im def not leaving takeda..never - i might pick up scorpion more BUT , Takeda will prob always be my numero uno.

As for the Comeback - i agree. i make alot of comebacks with takeda and the reason is becuase its not only me having to learn the match up but takeda seems like a charater that you also cant play two players alike. - like i couldnt play the same Takeda i would against REO's Quan chi vs Michelangelos Quan Chi ( if that makes sense) .. i really cant go into the same offensive a lot which usually means i end up giving a round just trying to figure how so and sos sonya is different than the one i just played ten minutes ago and so on. i know this is evident across all players but iwth takeda in comparison to Scorpion - i think scorpion dictates the match speed and pace with his offensive more than takeda so less coming from behind he needs to do

It's true Scorpion dictates the match more because people fear him. They are afraid of the many ways he can lock you down. From his amazing jump 3, his d4, and his teleports people hesitate and pace thsmselves. Takeda they generally go nuts and try to murder his face for most of the match usually throwing caution out the window due to lack of respect. At least that is my experience playing as him.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Someone already said it but Takeda has the edge in the damage department.

You could say the same thing about any low/mid tier characters. Why play Mileena when you can play Tanya, or Kitana when you could play Kenshi? It is because you either like the character and like playing them or they fit your playstyle the best.

I also think there are some very distinct differences between Scorps and Takeda. For starters, Takeda has better range in most of his variations. He also has kunai cancels which if done right make him safe(Scorpion cannot do that without meter). Takeda's Tele cancels are safer. As said above Takeda gets crazy damage, most of it unbreakable. Takeda has better armor options.

I mean obviously scorps is the better character, but I don't see any reason why Scorps would invalidate Takeda.

 

[aieches]

It's true Scorpion dictates the match more because people fear him. They are afraid of the many ways he can lock you down. From his amazing jump 3, his d4, and his teleports people hesitate and pace thsmselves. Takeda they generally go nuts and try to murder his face for most of the match usually throwing caution out the window due to lack of respect. At least that is my experience playing as him.

your def right, but thats actually how i would suggest going into a match VS takeda if you are unfamiliar with his gameplan..lol
sometimes you can be the better player fundamentally but just get bullied terribly playing as takeda and loose your cool. i know its happened to me tons of times and i can only blame myself cause i attack with what i need to connect to recoup damage from my opponent rather that whats the wisest choice and then get blown up from it.

and scorpions jump 3 seriously makes me scared to jump cause him converting off that once is enough to steal ANY momentum

 

[aieches]

Someone already said it but Takeda has the edge in the damage department.
He does ? hhmmm... personally i feel scorpion has him beat but im def down to take a second look. but just looking at what i see in matches and converting off of AA and what not i feel scorp edges takeda .i did forget to take Unbreakable damage into consideration but what scorp lacks in unbreakable he gains in mixups and a true vortex.

You could say the same thing about any low/mid tier characters. Why play Mileena when you can play Tanya, or Kitana when you could play Kenshi? It is because you either like the character and like playing them or they fit your playstyle the best.
yeah but this was more of a Shiryi Ryu thing. Just to see peoples thoughts and the reason behind staying or switching . Now i DO feel that tension building between Dragon Naginata and Mornful but ill let kitana fans handle that , lol. This is not really a thread to convert me or others to scorpion - its just something i think of when i see any scorpion match. im sticking with takeda through hell or high water but its just something that always comes to mind,

I also think there are some very distinct differences between Scorps and Takeda. For starters, Takeda has better range in most of his variations. He also has kunai cancels which if done right make him safe(Scorpion cannot do that without meter). Takeda's Tele cancels are safer. As said above Takeda gets crazy damage, most of it unbreakable. Takeda has better armor options.
Yeah im so grateful at the cost of the kunai cancels is zero. but i do think that the pressure that scorpion can create with his cancels or how they can extend combos and do mix ups bring a bit more to the table. But i will say Takedas cancels are less likly to be dropped in execution so thats good. i did forget to take Unbreakable damage into consideration but ..


I mean obviously scorps is the better character, but I don't see any reason why Scorps would invalidate Takeda.
Nobody could invalidate Takeda.. period. lol

 

[aieches]

thanks for everyones view so far , ive made a few changes above.. interesting

 

[Maevar]

Man.... I was wondering the same question over and over again... it was running in my head soooo many times...
Even now, sometimes I wonder if I should continue playing Takeda or start learning a new character, but then again... I say it to myself "Why bother? Yes it's mid/low tier, yes he has such a slow move set, his armor moves aren't great, but... I like how this character feels and looks".

I'm not dropping him.

I hope in the near future NRS will learn that in order to have balance, they should make Fast Characters with slow recover and slow characters with fast recovery - of course considering ranged and melee attacks/projectiles etc. - but still... this could resolve so many issues in the game.

Peace out - nothing personal.

I'm not dropping on Takeda - stay strong! :>

 

[Bender]

It's true Scorpion dictates the match more because people fear him. They are afraid of the many ways he can lock you down. From his amazing jump 3, his d4, and his teleports people hesitate and pace thsmselves. Takeda they generally go nuts and try to murder his face for most of the match usually throwing caution out the window due to lack of respect. At least that is my experience playing as him.

That's pretty much the case. I'm scared to let him start taking control of a match and the best counter is to go ham and only block if I expect wakeup teleport or am hit off a poke/ normal myself. Takeda is really scary once he gets his pressure started.

Scorpion is another monster. 1 mistake and you're in a vortex. There will always be an extra degree of caution for that reason, until you have him cornered.

Imo, if scorpian didn't have a vortex, or takeda did, they would be the same tier.

 

[aieches]

That's pretty much the case. I'm scared to let him start taking control of a match and the best counter is to go ham and only block if I expect wakeup teleport or am hit off a poke/ normal myself. Takeda is really scary once he gets his pressure started.

Scorpion is another monster. 1 mistake and you're in a vortex. There will always be an extra degree of caution for that reason, until you have him cornered.

Imo, if scorpian didn't have a vortex, or takeda did, they would be the same tier.

i feel you are right abot scorpions vortex- without it , i can see him dropping a few places def but actually i think if Takeda had a vortex he would be OP. - and i think thats one of the big probs with Takeda.. its hard to decide what to give him extra as one simple thing can just jump him straight to the top then he will be nerfed back down to hell cause of complaints to a shell of himself.

i dont really rate tiers as much as i do catarogize people im scared of.
im scared of high level Scorps , raidens, quan chis, sonyas, ermacs, kung jins
a high level takeda im not really scared of- more curious - maybe it because i play as him i dunno.. but Takeda with a vortex i dont think id even wanna have mirror matches with that SOB hahaha,

now SR takeda with another low starter that doesnt show a damn running animation that im attacking low .... hmmmmm....

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

They are two totally different characters and play with 2 VERY different playstyles.

It's almost asking why you'd play Guile when you can just play Zangief.

Takeda controls space and controls the neutral game in ways that no other character can. He has high damage output, as well as some of the highest unbreakable damage. Did I mention that he can control space simply from the threat of attacks?

Is takeda better than scorpion? No, but that's not a reason to play scorpion. If we had this mind state everyone would just play tempest kung or bojutsu jin.

Takeda is not a rushdown character. Sure, he has options to rushdown but he shines more when he is at mid range.

Scorpion is a rushdown character.. At least in ninjutsu or hellfire. He has to get all his damage from ranges in which most other characters get their damage.

See what I'm saying? Anyway if u wanna drop takeda for scorpion go ahead. I don't think anyone would stop you lol

 

[GuerillaTactix]

0


haha it will be allowed if ONLY if you elaborate more on why .lol but i can understand how some may think this.. esp if you have been playing MK since arcades.. i have basically been playing ninjas since the frist wave of cabinets to drop
mk1 - sub and scorpion
mk2 - sub and scorpion
mk3T - c.smoke and ermac ( main kabal though)
mk4- subzero but i stopped playing as i didnt like this new direction the gamplay and visuals went.
mk9 - when i came back to MK- Reptile smoke ( pre nerf- yes i admit it) and Kabal - day one and before run cancels so im clear of all hate lol
mkx i really like scorpions design but yes with a new Shirai Ryu i welcomed the change to a fresh new ninja.

Haha! You know I'm not gunna give legit reasons why Scorpions boring. He's not really. Takeda is just some much cooler. I can give my opinions on what makes him better though:

Number 1: Sheer damage into resets.
I can't name many characters that get the damage Takeda gets without damage buffs while consistently being able to end his max damage combos within range off his 50/50 which just so happens to be pretty far for character who lack the same range..

Number 2: Style
What's really cooler than Takeda's air teleport, air spear, whip combos that throw you back and forth constantly guessing where the combo will leaving you? And half screen overhead whip moves?? I mean.. Let's be honest TYM.. you've either played Takeda or secretly want to play Takeda but because you're a proclaimed "against the grain low tier struggler" or a "tournment jockey tier whore" and you refuse to jump on the bandwagon or you're scared to play a mid tier character.

Either way you envy us!! lol!