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Harley Quinn General Discussion Thread

x MAD AXES x

Lighten up will ya!
Friend and I were labbing cheetah vs Harley and if you are in the wall as Harley and get knocked down do not wakeup vs her as f+3 will cover all your wake up options besides delayed get up, you have to either take the +6 on block into a jailing 1,2 tick throw or whatever or delay get up and still be at a disadvantage but 1,2 won't jail.

I think it's obvious but if you get walled vs her you have to make some insane reads just to try and get out.
 

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
Ok, I've had a pretty good lab session tonight.

If meatied correctly, s2 and the second hit of 12 can be made plus on block. You have to hit on the last active frame.

I've been having some trouble with Doctor Fate, so I labbed his wakeup Glyph and found a consistent way to blow it up for huge damage by ending your combos in @FOREVER EL1TE 33 crossup setup and then just ji2 and if timed correctly you should either stuff it entirely, or avoid the glyph, allowing you to punish the recovery.

Also started breaking down the options I have after Fate's f2~glyph, which I was consistently losing before because he'd either f2 again and it would beat all my buttons, mostly because he's floating and causing b2 to have serious issues, or backdash and I'd have to chase him down again.

Tantrum stance can catch a backdash, but can be beaten by another f2 depending on how spaced out the last one you blocked was. It appears to change how negative glyph is.

Neutral jump can beat both options with either nj2 or air guns respectively.
 
Guys so noob question, whenever you get a wall bounce (b3) with Harley, does it matter what button you jump in with to do a follows up combo?
 

24K

Noob
quadra post!!!
It said unspecified error or something when I was trying to post that last night. Logged on now to come repost it because I thought it still hadn't gone through. My bad, I had put 13 frames for a different move and forgot to change it.
 

24K

Noob
Some weird things where happening last night. I can't really recall exactly what they were but here's the low down, maybe others have noticed and can explain it better.

Sometimes 112xxTS comes out as 11xxPopPop. I am cancelling it to early I assume which is why it is taking the 2 from 112 as the PopPop input. But all the inputs on the side show I have done everything cleanly. To not get the PopPop I started leaving the 3 off of DB3. And it cancels. 112xxDB comes out as 11xxTS.

I have all the controller settings on off. No negative edge, no shortcuts, I don't even have the 1+2 throw shortcut.

Have you guys seen this.
 

darklightjg1

Lost Street Fighter Player
Yeah the inputs still store a bit and you'll sometimes get unintentional specials even with the release check turned off. It's annoying. Another annoying thing is with the DB2 being mid, but whiffing over half the cast crouching that people brought up earlier in the thread... I just noticed "breathing hurtboxes" also play into this. Example: Black Canary is really low while crouching and the DB2 will whiff over her 90% of the time whether you charge it or not (charging to level 2 pop pop or higher increases the size of the hitbox a bit I believe, which will allow you to tag a few more characters in crouching stance), but on rare occasions her breathing hurtbox will shift and allow the projectile to tag her... it's stupid. Is consistency too much to ask for?

-You can now get a B3 conversion into combo after an anti-air D2. I didn't know if this was old news, but I checked to see if this was possible in INJ1 and she couldn't do it then. Try it out.

-D2 on block cancelled into Play Doctor acts as another tick throw on a standing opponent. Someone already mentioned 3,3 xx Play Doctor is a tick throw on standing opponents, but actually letting the 3,3 ride out the entire animation can be a legit tick into regular throw as it is +5 on block and leaves you right next to the opponent.

(Note: Apparently in INJ1 3,3 could force a crouching opponent on block to shift upwards just enough for Play Doctor to connect as a legit tick throw, but from a small amount of testing it doesn't seem like you can do this in INJ2. I tested it on Batman in both games, but maybe other characters might yield different results because of the whole breathing hurtbox variance thing going on).
 

D4G

Win At All Cost
So i was fooling around with tantrum stance and i found a combo on complete accident.

You can start with either (b22, f2, or j2, 3)
j2,3xxdb31, delayed j2, d2, j1, buffer dbf1.

You can end the j2, d2, with a mallet slap bounce cancel and do a little more or even a super im still testing things myself. This combo does decent damage i think (about 26% to superman.) and does have alot of carry and its meterless.
Now This is sexy! The Dr. Approves.
 

D4G

Win At All Cost
I swear Play Dr.(DBF1) is the worst move ever to execute in a fighting game. Such a stupid command for one of her most important tools. Over 30 hours with this character and still only a 50% success rate.

Anyway, for those of you having trouble as I am with this move, try substituting your ender with a D1->DBF1. The D1 counts as a reliable buffer into the command grab. It's significantly easier than trying to do the input raw.

Example: Ji2 > B22xxDB3 > B3 > J2 > J1 > D1xxBF1
 

Awkward Sloth

Lamest Harley, still better sloth than Jer
Friend and I were labbing cheetah vs Harley and if you are in the wall as Harley and get knocked down do not wakeup vs her as f+3 will cover all your wake up options besides delayed get up, you have to either take the +6 on block into a jailing 1,2 tick throw or whatever or delay get up and still be at a disadvantage but 1,2 won't jail.

I think it's obvious but if you get walled vs her you have to make some insane reads just to try and get out.
I feel like people aren't using pushblock to the full advantage yet. Especially on Jump ins. I know the input sucks but Harley pretty much always has meter.

It's a saving grace in the Atroc match up and I'm positive it will be on characters like Cheetah.
 

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
Serious question, but possibly born out of salt, does Harley lose the zoning war to damn near every other zoner? Me needing to step up my game is totally a possibility and I welcome any advice from anyone that feels differently, but how am I supposed to remotely compete at range with these slow, low damaging gunshots when everyone else has faster, higher damaging projectiles.

Ideally you'd be able to shoot, then block or duck, but that plan seems to rarely work out for me. I guess I need to learn to force that situation at range if I can. Most of the time I just try and get in, but I think the general consensus is still that she's not too great there.

I'm genuinely having more trouble dealing with other zoners than I like to admit, right now.
 

Awkward Sloth

Lamest Harley, still better sloth than Jer
Serious question, but possibly born out of salt, does Harley lose the zoning war to damn near every other zoner? Me needing to step up my game is totally a possibility and I welcome any advice from anyone that feels differently, but how am I supposed to remotely compete at range with these slow, low damaging gunshots when everyone else has faster, higher damaging projectiles.

Ideally you'd be able to shoot, then block or duck, but that plan seems to rarely work out for me. I guess I need to learn to force that situation at range if I can. Most of the time I just try and get in, but I think the general consensus is still that she's not too great there.

I'm genuinely having more trouble dealing with other zoners than I like to admit, right now.
Ya She had that problem in the first game. Her projectiles are more on the slower side that's why they are all plus at the ranges you should be using them. And only gunshot has super good recovery. The others not so much.

She can zone characters that can't zone back or don't have super easy ways to get in. Mb roll is baitable for the most part. And she kinda does better up close on zoners that have a worse up close game but that's about it.

Aquaman still gives her hell too.
 

Evil Canadian

G O K U
Premium Supporter
So harley really doesn't give a fuck about using bar. That is pretty handy. She gets good damage everywhere onscreen without spending a single meter.
 

Monox1de

Noob
So harley really doesn't give a fuck about using bar. That is pretty handy. She gets good damage everywhere onscreen without spending a single meter.
harley's meter is for clash, roll, air escape, pushblock, MB cupcake, MB gunshot, MB air gunshot, MB b3./f3, wakeup super, or ending combos with MB playdoctor......u get to choose when to spend instead of needing to spend it for conversions...my most popular meter usages are MB cupcakes MB gunshots MB playdoctor and clash ... it was same in injustice 1....meterless dmg is what attracted me to her in the first game
 

24K

Noob
Guys so noob question, whenever you get a wall bounce (b3) with Harley, does it matter what button you jump in with to do a follows up combo?
I find JIP2 to be the best option. It does more damage and it it gets them to drop a little quicker so I am not left standing around waiting for them to come down to my ender.

B22xxTS seems to not combo if you are to close to your opponent. May not matter since It feels like it jails anyway. And it may give you more damage over all if it doesn't combo. Though have that 400+ damage pop up on screen looks pretty nice.

The Play Dr inputs aren't an issue at all. On a stick or Xbone controller. I think it is the DS4 causing the issues. If you are overzealous with the B input it will give you a back jump since all the buttons are so close and tightly connected. I never had an issue with Erron Blacks command on the Xbone controller.
But I will use the D1xxBF trick out and see if it helps. I typically press each button independently, instead of trying to roll it like I could with MKX. I feel the D1xxBF trick may get patched at some point though, which is why I stopped using D1xxB1 to get D1xxTS. Or 112xxDB to get 112xxTS. I don't want to be screwed into relearning inputs when this gets fixed as it is clearly a mess up. This issue wasn't in MKX and If I can see on the side of my screen my inputs are clean, then the game knows my inputs are clean, and I should be rewarded with a clean on screen animation.

I am having trouble getting the 112xxCupCakes to come out, as in not once has it happened. And I cant get 33 off of a JIP2 on a wall bounced opponent. Am I trying to get the first kick to land, or whiff the the first kick and get the two follow up kicks.
 

24K

Noob
Serious question, but possibly born out of salt, does Harley lose the zoning war to damn near every other zoner? Me needing to step up my game is totally a possibility and I welcome any advice from anyone that feels differently, but how am I supposed to remotely compete at range with these slow, low damaging gunshots when everyone else has faster, higher damaging projectiles.

Ideally you'd be able to shoot, then block or duck, but that plan seems to rarely work out for me. I guess I need to learn to force that situation at range if I can. Most of the time I just try and get in, but I think the general consensus is still that she's not too great there.

I'm genuinely having more trouble dealing with other zoners than I like to admit, right now.
I haven't really figured out her place on the screen just yet. She definitely isn't a zoner. She has tools to get some serious quantities of projectiles on screen, and a Harley zoning somebody out is a thing of beauty. But she can only take advantage of that on opponents that also aren't classed as zoners. She is said to be ass close range, but I feel with the amount of damage shes does meter-less that isn't the case. She just has some slow starters sometimes and she doesn't have a solid punish combo. Well she might, I don't have it down yet. But I have only been able to spend about two hours with her in the lab, but her wake up game doesn't suck and she can convert very nicely off of it. At mid range she has some reach on a few things. But Robin has better reach. So she isn't really great at anything, and that isn't a bad thing. Since she has more tools to mess with a large part of the cast. The feeling I am getting from her is that she is a female Sagat. She has some slow keep away projectiles that can be used to just annoy and slow down people getting in on you. She can then set up her mid range play and look for her space to get her combo off. And if the opponent gets in she still has a combo starter with 11 which isn't the fastest but it works. She takes a little more effort than some of the cast, but her play style is different to most and it may pay off in the long run. If anything she will get us all to improve our fundamentals. Which is something NRS characters don't often achieve.
 
Is it just me, or is Harley considerably trickier to use than in I1? I'm finding TS1 into B3 to be super unreliable compared to last game. Same with juggles into 112. Half the time, her hitboxes just seem inadequate, especially compared to how easy a time I'm having with Scarecrow.
Any tips for this? Surely it's just a matter of B3'ing asap?