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Harley Quinn General Discussion Thread

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
It's her official portrait on the injustice website, I want to say. Alternatively, they all had to submit their photos, but Harley forgot and ended up just using her most recent mug shot.

I'm sure this haunts her.
 

Goatlegs

Noob
So I didn't see this on stream, but it appears her b2 now hits floating hitboxes.

Can someone test too? I may be doing it wrong.
 
I tested it, it does hit more consistently on floaty characters but i still experience it. I would say test every situation where it wouldn’t work before and see now
 

JBeezYBabY

Mr. Righteous
So I didn't see this on stream, but it appears her b2 now hits floating hitboxes.

Can someone test too? I may be doing it wrong.
I was soooo excited when i heard that on stream, THEN i realized i THOUGHT he said B3....damnit...but i guess thats good too lol
 

Cursa

Counterpoke with armoured DB2 at all times.
Ignoring my previous post since I posted it out of pure rage for Harley's spamming J2, what exactly makes her a not-top tier character? Because all I've heard is that she has certain problems without any elaboration on what said problems are.
 
Ignoring my previous post since I posted it out of pure rage for Harley's spamming J2, what exactly makes her a not-top tier character? Because all I've heard is that she has certain problems without any elaboration on what said problems are.
Her biggest weakness by far is that her mids are shit. Aside from d1 and d2, her fastest standing mid is s2 at 15 frames start-up, and said 15-frame mid has bad range. b1 has better range, but is 19 frames, and s3 is 21 frames and has lacklustre range.

As for her two faster mids, d1 is alright, but you can't win a fight with just d1s alone. Obviously d1~TS does mega chunky damage, but it's something you have to commit to, and is really best reserved for punishment only. d2 is very middle-of-the-road - there are better, and there are worse. Again, not really enough to make up for her lack of good mids otherwise.

Secondly, she struggles with opening people up, which is a big problem in those match-ups where she needs to open people up. I don't just mean that her overhead option can be blocked on reaction - that's true of many characters in the cast. Sure, that's part of it, but in addition she can't get in too easily, and once she does, her throw range is abominable; unless the characters onscreen are basically touching, forget it.

Finally, how well her zoning works is very match-up dependent. Trades are almost always unfavourable, and there are several characters who can out-zone her quite soundly. To name a few, Starfire, Green Arrow, Dr Fate and Supergirl all give her trouble in that regard.

To summarise, in situations where Harley does well, she does really, really well. But there are enough situations where she doesn't that she's most definitely not top tier.
 

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
I'd put her whiffing issues as the most major problem. Her plus pressure off gunshots is essentially her entire up close game, and it doesn't work at all on 6 (maybe 7-10 depending on whether it works on turtles and how you count them) characters, while still having inconsistencies across pretty much the whole cast. Harley's meant to be a hybrid, so she's got weak counter zoning, meaning she has to get in. If you get there, and your main form of offense doesn't work at all (Starfire and Enchantress) that's a pretty terrible situation.

But I do agree, in matchups where everything works consistently, while not getting massively out zoned or out neutraled, she definitely seems like a top tier. It's just that those things happen often enough that she doesn't have the matchups for it. It's really weird for me to see a character I think has some borderline overpowered tools not be that good because they don't fit right in the game.
 

Eldagrin

Add me on PS4 if you want to play some games
I'd definitely agree that she has some incredibly strong tools that just don't work in some match ups, which is incredibly problematic in a game where counterpicking is so prevalent. Aquaman is also extremely easy to pick up and he kind of bodies her.
 

Kotal_Wannabe

AKA AndyPandy
Also bear in mind that Harley has over 13 bad matchups. It's just not possible to be top tier with that level of counter picking. It's why you rarely see her in tourneys, other than die hard fans.
 

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
Also bear in mind that Harley has over 13 bad matchups. It's just not possible to be top tier with that level of counter picking. It's why you rarely see her in tourneys, other than die hard fans.
Did you see how sad KP was when Dragon picked Aquaman on him? I think that's how we all felt.
 

Cursa

Counterpoke with armoured DB2 at all times.
Also bear in mind that Harley has over 13 bad matchups. It's just not possible to be top tier with that level of counter picking. It's why you rarely see her in tourneys, other than die hard fans.
Is Atom included among said matchups? I feel like B2 out footsies me really well and the zoning war is difficult to win due to gunshot's recovery vs the startup of any of Atom's tools. J2 is still kinda hard to deal with outside of yolo J1 but even then I find myself losing.

Two more things:
- I assume wakeup tantrum stance is a bill
- Harley's I keep fighting kept ending combos in tantrum stance into forward roll neutral jump and then crosses me up with a J2. Don't know how to beat this outside of delayed wakeup or if I can react to it but it reversed wakeup inputs which was annoying af.

Also wow, a community that actually has multiple members that all respond with gr8 answers.
 

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
You can tech roll that setup. I don't know the matchup well, so I can't say for sure if she wins or loses, but at the very least, you don't have to deal with gunshot pressure up close. That's always a plus when dealing with Harley.
 

Cursa

Counterpoke with armoured DB2 at all times.
You can tech roll that setup. I don't know the matchup well, so I can't say for sure if she wins or loses, but at the very least, you don't have to deal with gunshot pressure up close. That's always a plus when dealing with Harley.
Yea I noticed that, spam D1 on a read of any gunshot up close.
 
Atom's a match-up I personally struggle with regardless of which character I'm using, so I'm not sure whether Harley vs Atom is genuinely a bad match-up or whether I'm just not that good.


Is Atom included among said matchups? I feel like B2 out footsies me really well and the zoning war is difficult to win due to gunshot's recovery vs the startup of any of Atom's tools. J2 is still kinda hard to deal with outside of yolo J1 but even then I find myself losing.
Atom's a match-up I personally struggle with regardless of which character I'm using, so I'm not sure whether Harley vs Atom is genuinely a bad match-up for HQ or whether I just need to level up lol.

Though as for gunshots... just duck a lot, lol.

I assume wakeup tantrum stance is a bill
Short answer: yes.

Long answer: It only really works against opponents who are recklessly aggressive on wake-up, potentially blowing through whatever attack they throw for a full combo. Emphasis on 'potentially', as many well-timed attacks will slice straight through it anyway. Play Doctor (dbf1) functions better as a wake-up tool, but still isn't that great due to its poor hitbox plus the fact it can easily be ducked, along with a poor reward compared to its risk.

But really, if you're facing a Harley who tries db3 on wake-up, just block. Literally every single option afterwards is unsafe. Back roll has 9001 recovery frames, so anything with enough range will punish. Forward roll leaves her vulnerable and directly in front of you for a full combo punish. TS2 and TS3 are both so negative that they're full combo punishable - with TS3 the pushback may cause some issues, but there's generally still something you can punish with. TS1 leaves her -10 and right next to you, and many characters can full combo punish that as well (disclaimer: I often use the coward's option of d1~special to punish it instead - far from optimal but still genuinely enough to dissuade them from just throwing it out there)
 

Cursa

Counterpoke with armoured DB2 at all times.
Atom's a match-up I personally struggle with regardless of which character I'm using, so I'm not sure whether Harley vs Atom is genuinely a bad match-up or whether I'm just not that good.




Atom's a match-up I personally struggle with regardless of which character I'm using, so I'm not sure whether Harley vs Atom is genuinely a bad match-up for HQ or whether I just need to level up lol.

Though as for gunshots... just duck a lot, lol.



Short answer: yes.

Long answer: It only really works against opponents who are recklessly aggressive on wake-up, potentially blowing through whatever attack they throw for a full combo. Emphasis on 'potentially', as many well-timed attacks will slice straight through it anyway. Play Doctor (dbf1) functions better as a wake-up tool, but still isn't that great due to its poor hitbox plus the fact it can easily be ducked, along with a poor reward compared to its risk.

But really, if you're facing a Harley who tries db3 on wake-up, just block. Literally every single option afterwards is unsafe. Back roll has 9001 recovery frames, so anything with enough range will punish. Forward roll leaves her vulnerable and directly in front of you for a full combo punish. TS2 and TS3 are both so negative that they're full combo punishable - with TS3 the pushback may cause some issues, but there's generally still something you can punish with. TS1 leaves her -10 and right next to you, and many characters can full combo punish that as well (disclaimer: I often use the coward's option of d1~special to punish it instead - far from optimal but still genuinely enough to dissuade them from just throwing it out there)
Tbh I'm not sure on the Atom MU either. There's like 2 of us on the Atom thread so discussing MU's and tech is pretty limited. Idk if there's a discord or not.

Feel like characters who prevent him from zoning give him trouble. He's a very meter intensive character and Harley is the complete opposite of that. He has trouble dealing with J2 and B2 outside of trait and even then it's not like trait is a 100% answer. I feel much more confident with Superman or Robin in the matchup so I can at least deal with those tools in particular. Robin gets zoned but his up close game is infinitely superior to and once you get in it's very hard to get him out again.