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#GrumpyBat: The Joker General Discussion Thread

CG Nino

Noob
Whats up guys, Im jumpin in the clown car as well

The issue I see no one talk about is there is seemingly 2 delay wakeups that can be done on even hard knockdowns.

So we have to not only have a setup to cover normal rise and delay wakeup we need to be able to still pressure the super delay wakeup.

This looks like it will kill a lot of the left right jump in setups, or at least full proof ones.

Add to this tech roll on non hkd, and normal rise with wakeup invul special or mb b3 and it makes oki a nightmare to perfect. Especially with so many safe mb wakeups there is in the game. Add on top of this should we manage to meatie the delay wakeups they can simply push block for a bar and kill momentum. Def a zoners game for sure haha.

Will try and keep working on setups that lead into pressure for wakeups delay and non delayed.

In t mode youll notice the delay wakeup feature has a short, long, off, random. From testing my uppercut then mashing d 1s as much as possible it seems like a 24-26 frame difference in normal rise and the short delay. Another 3-5 frames for the long delay.

Does anyone have exact data on these wakeup differences yet? W such a large gap oki for all is gonna be tough on top of the reversals everywhere.

The one positive is no wakeup attack is possible should the opponent choose to do a delay wakeup of either sort. So it should at least allows some form of jump pressure after the first setup fails.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Any legitimate ambiguous crossup setups he had were removed when they got rid of his flower restands. He wasn't a character that jumped in on you on knockdown outside of 1-2 setups maybe because his jumps couldn't reliably stuff the different wakeups chars had. He was and is still all about unblockables, and those don't seem to be affected by the wakeup system.
 

CG Nino

Noob
Any legitimate ambiguous crossup setups he had were removed when they got rid of his flower restands. He wasn't a character that jumped in on you on knockdown outside of 1-2 setups maybe because his jumps couldn't reliably stuff the different wakeups chars had. He was and is still all about unblockables, and those don't seem to be affected by the wakeup system.

How so? The meatie teeth expire before the delay wakeups happen, how do you ensure oki if you are in recovery from your setup whiffing?

For example the shkd setup vid you post that alows dash meaty teeth mb f3 in corner, the teeth should expire if long delay wakeup making blocking your f mb3 very easy as well as wasting your bar. They can choose to push block if they want here and be out of it completely.
 
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Qwark28

Joker waiting room
How so? The meatie teeth expire before the delay wakeups happen, how do you ensure oki if you are in recovery from your setup whiffing?

For example the shkd setup vid you post that alows dash meaty teeth mb f3 in corner, the teeth should expire if long delay wakeup making blocking your f mb3 very easy as well as wasting your bar. They can choose to push block if they want here and be out of it completely.
I tested this, they don't. You still get the unblockable.

How did you test this?
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Joker seems to have a ton of nuance, so much that you're going to have to put in more work in the early stages to start seeing results compared to the intuitive nature of the rest of the cast. I'm new to Injustice, but from what I understand the things that made joker bad in the first game were the inconsistent/glitched out nature of his hitboxes. Seems like they fixed those issues and added some buffs with the only downside of losing that flower move (looked pretty strong in the first game).

We also have Alioune and Notez to help develop an optimized joker

Anyways, wouldn't it be optimal to end his midscreen BnBs into sweep? The hard knockdown gives us an ambiguous left/right mixup followup or at the very least guaranteed pressure. Sonic fox did a followup to MB Canister with B3 D2 Teeth into 324 D3 and got a safe jump. If you inch forward slightly after the sweep, you can time the Jump 2 to hit in front or as a crossup at the same spacing.

There's also the potential of the 21 hitconfirm, since there's a lot of possible decisions to make after it being blocked. Can just go into 212 for the safe teeth/mb canister/crowbar cancel, b1 for the gunshot hitconfirm (or you're getting punished), jump, ect.
Joker was bad in the first game because of his mobility, not hitboxes.
 

laudanum09

Darling
Yeah
So I made some "ua" sponsored dead shot player rage quit in ranked last night purely on patience and a little bit of matchup knowledge. I'm at work right now but afterwards I'll type out my findings.
Yeah i just started ranked last night and went 50/50. One of my losses was a deadshot and i just couldnt deal with it. NRS zoning is a whole different animal to capcom fireballs lol.

Any advice i can get would be much appreciated.
 

DDutchguy

Stand 4'ing airplanes out of the sky
Which is better for a hard knockdown ender: 213 or B13? The former has 40 hit advantage while B13 has in the 20s if I recall correctly, does that mean 213 is the better ender?
 

Gilbagz

Joker here~
Which is better for a hard knockdown ender: 213 or B13? The former has 40 hit advantage while B13 has in the 20s if I recall correctly, does that mean 213 is the better ender?
B13 would be more than 20 easily cos the 3 lands while they get launched by teeth, so you they fall for longer before actually hitting the floor and starting the recovery animation. Dont know if its more than 213 though; in saying that its hard to combo into 213 midscreen. Shines more in the corner for sure.
 

Wigy

There it is...
I thought 213 was tech rollable. Nice.

Joker much better rhan i thought. Nobody can deal with the 21(3) b13 staggers at the moment

B13 grants a dash and teeth if hit in the air does it not?

I sometimes just convert teeth setups in the corner into b13 just to get guaranteed teeth out with ease of execution. Damage isnt bad either tbf.
 
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laudanum09

Darling
I'm going to try and experiment with B2 in the corner. It's faster than F3 and although you can't armor it, I'm sure the speed will come in handy after conditioning an opponent not to wake up.
 
does anyone with a lot of Joker gear know if he's got a legit suit or if he's shirtless all the time? wanted him to look more like The Killing Joke
 

DDutchguy

Stand 4'ing airplanes out of the sky
does anyone with a lot of Joker gear know if he's got a legit suit or if he's shirtless all the time? wanted him to look more like The Killing Joke
Some of his torso geae has an undershirt. I've got one right now which is sort of like he's wearing a tie.