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Match-up Discussion Green Arrow SAMU: Bane

Cossner

King of the Jobbers 2015
Green Arrow SAMU (Shitty Ass Match-up)

Bane Match up Description and Tips

Index:

- Overheads
- Lows
- Punishable Strings
- Special Moves
- Wake up Game
- How Venom Works
- Tips

Overheads:

f2d - 24 frames of start up. Neutral on block.
f3 - 40 frames of start up. +9 on block.
113 - +3 on block.
b23 - +4 on block.

Lows:

b1 - 17 frames of start up. +12 on block.
b2 - 18 frames of start up. -2 on block.
d1 - 11 frames of start up. +3 on block.
b11 - -2 on block.

^LIKE IF THE FRAME DATA MATTERS. Bane can just follow up with an armored move and punish WHATEVER you do.

Remember that they like doing d1xxDP, which is a LOW xx OH, so watch out for that.

Punishable strings:

F2 - -24 on block (gets armor at level 3)
112 - -14 on block.
(that's it).
Please note that Bane's B3 is -4, unlike the rest of the cast that's usually positive on block.

Special Moves:

Body Press (dbf3) - Command grab. If you're getting hit and in the ground it'll whiff.

You be punished by jumping backwards and J3 or Savage Blast.


Raging Charge (bf1) - 32 start up frames. Bane charges towards you.

There are 2 ways to punish this.
If he's in Venom Level 1 or 2, you can MB B3 when you're about to get hit. (Punish damage: Venom 1 30%, Venom 2 27%).
If you have a Frozen Arrow equipped, you can neutral jump/jump over and shoot an arrow. If they started the Raging Charge far away from you, it'll hit. If they're close to you and you neutral jump/jump forward, the arrow will be blockable. To make the arrow land, you can jump backwards. Timing is strict un the jumping, and it doesn't work if they do it literally next to you. It punishes the 3 levels of Venom.
If you don't want to take damage or you lack bars, you can jump and use Dead On.


Double Punch (bf2) - 16 start up frames. -5 on block.

You CANNOT punish this conventionally. Do not even TRY to D1. You can MB B3 through it unless he's at level 3.

You can hurricane blade afterwards, but it can be stuffed with Venom Uppercut, and if they block it you're open to a full combo punish.
The correct course of action after he does a double punch, is jumping backwards and J1/j3.
If they follow up with:
- D2/Ring Slam: You'll escape without getting hit. If you take too long he'll hit you, but if you're on point, it'll whiff.
- Double Punch: Do J1 -> F2D13 -> Frozen Arrow/Load Arrow.
- Venom Uppercut: Do J3 -> Dash forward -> D1 xx Hurricane Blade.
- Body Press: Do J1 -> F2D13 -> Frozen Arrow/Load Arrow.


Venom Uppercut (db2) - 14 start up frames. -31 on block.

After you block it, best punish with 2 bars:

111 xx db mb -> J3 -> J2 -> 111 xx Whatever

Best punish with a frozen arrow:

111 xx d4 -> B3 -> J3 -> J2 -> 111 xx Whatever

Best punish without bars or arrows:

113 -> J2 -> 111 xx Stinger
or
F2D13 xx dash forward (Yes, cancel it) -> 223 xx Hurricane Blade (Not very consistent)
or
223 xx Hurricane Blade (for consistency)


MB Venom Uppercut (MBdb2) - NOT -8 ON BLOCK. IN GAME DATA IS WRONG (Almost neutral).

This is very tricky. If you see the MB spark thing you have to IMMEDIATELY:

-MB B3 it. (Best option, but requires a bar).
- Dash forward and B3 (Just frame punish)
- Dash forward -> F2D13 (May whiff if they did it too close to you).

If you didn't react in time and you got hit, KEEP BLOCKING.


Fist Slam (Yeah, counting it as a special because it gets armor as well ONLY ON LEVEL 3 THOUGH) - 24 frames start up. Neutral on block.

Nothing you can do here. You can try jumping backwards but you'll just get hit. Better MB B3 to punish follow ups from mashing Banes I guess :/


Wake up Game:

Savage Blast
Beats: Body Press, Venom Uppercut, Fist Slam
Gets beaten by: d2/b2 shenanigans, Double Punch, Raging Charge
(50% chance of guessing correctly).

Stinger
Beats: Double Punch
Gets beaten by: Venom Uppercut, d2/b2 shenanigans, Body Press, Fist Slam
(20% chance of guessing correctly)

Hurricane Blade
Beats: b2 cancel shenanigans.
Gets beaten by: d2, Venom Uppercut, Double Punch, Raging Charge, Body press, Fist Slam
(14% chance of guessing correctly)

Backdash
Beats: Raging Charge (you can block it at least)
Gets beaten by: Double Punch, d2/b2 shenanigans, Body Press, Venom Uppercut, Fist Slam.
(16% chance of guessing correctly)

Standing block:
Blocks: Double Punch, D2, Venom Uppercut, Raging Charge, Fist Slam.
Gets hit by: B2, Body Press, Grab.
(62% chance of blocking something)

Crouching block:
Blocks: D2, Venom Uppercut, Raging Charge, B2
Gets hit by: Double Punch, Body Press, Grab, Fist Slam.
(50% change of blocking something).

How Venom Works:

Bane's trait has 3 levels of effectiveness, which are:

Level 1 Buff
Duration: 7 seconds
Damage Bonus: 10%
Damage Reduction: 5%
Armor: Special moves gain 1 hit of armor.

Level 2 Buff
Duration: 7 seconds
Damage Bonus: 25%
Damage Reduction: 15%
Armor: same as Level 1

Level 3 Buff
Duration:7 seconds
Damage Bonus: 50%
Damage Reduction: 30%
Armor: In addition to the effects of Level 1 Venom, Bane's armor now ignores all projectiles, no matter how many hits he takes (i.e. he may Raging Charge right through Deathstroke's Machine Gun special). He also gains armor on two of his normals: f2 and f2d. Finally, he gains Armor-Breaking properties similar to Superman's trait, allowing him to blow through Lex's and Doomsday's traits, armored specials such as Walking Corpse, any super, and meter-burned b3 and f3.

Level 1 Debuff
Duration: 3 seconds
Bane's Damage Reduced: 20%
Additional Damage Suffered: 10%
Movement Penalty:10%

Level 2 Debuff
Duration: 4.5 seconds
Bane's Damage Reduced: 40%
Additional Damage Suffered: 25%
Movement Penalty: 25%

Level 3 Debuff
Duration: 6 seconds
Bane's Damage Reduced: 70%
Additional Damage Suffered: 50%
Movement Penalty: 50%
Meaning that for 21 seconds of constant armor, 7 seconds of projectile invulnerability, increased damage and decreased damage taken, he gets a 6 second debuff where he doesn't do a lot of damage, gets 1.5x more damage and becomes slower. For 6 seconds. Sounds LEGIT.

This is where you have to chase him. Good Banes will keep hitting you so it just means, you have 6 seconds to play as you would against any other character in the game. Use your DB MB cancels and Super if you can.

General Tips:

- Do not do your normal up close pressure. It's useless in this match up.
- Do not do F3 after normal arrow on hit. They can escape with armor (ridiculous).
- Wake up at your own risk. It's better if you don't, and even then you're not safe.
- Run away if you can. If he's up close, try to punish whatever he does. You CANNOT be offensive unless he's debuffed (remember, you only have 6 seconds).


Is this the Jade - Kenshi of Injustice? Yup. Probably worse.

I honestly don't know guys, discuss and stuff.
 
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One thing I'd add is that Dead on can be incredibly useful in this fight when dealing with his ragging charge. I don't worry too much about jumping away because if I see the telegraphed animation during my jump I can pretty easily do it on reaction and depending on the spacing can even get a punish afterward.

EDIT: Also, INB4 Doombawks says you can backdash half of his strings.
 
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^ I wouldn't call him the most braindead just because good Bane players still have to be mindful of things like their Venom management. That being said, matchups like these are why I almost made the switch to Aquaman. The last patch really screwed us hard on this one considering how pathetic our damage output is already.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
I honestly think this match is a lot of fun but is pretty fucked up at the same time. It really comes down to extreme patience, good blocking and running away for the duration of venom. I pretty much use fire and electric arrows for the entire match to go along with that strategy. Ice is only very good up close in most cases and limits your options when keeping out.

When venom runs out you have to make it count to win. Things like mb uppercut become easily punishable by d2 which can be cancelled into an ice arrow load for a freeze combo/super. Bane won't always have momentum when his venom runs out so getting in and punishing any attempt he makes at getting you off of him is important.

Also when dealing with banes charge I think it's important to stick with dead on and mb dead on over mb b3. The reason why is you should always do what it takes not to take any damage. With the combination of a damage boost and increased defense I don't really think it's worth absorbing that hit from the charge at the cost of meter. In some cases it could be a better option but IMO I think the safe way works the best.

Just trying to add in any way I can. Costner covered pretty much everything in his post.
 
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Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
b23 - +4 on block.


Punishable strings:

F2 - -24 on block (gets armor at level 3)
112 - -14 on block.
(that's it).
Please note that Bane's B3 is -4, unlike the rest of the cast that's usually positive on block.

MB Venom Uppercut (MBdb2) - NOT -8 ON BLOCK. IN GAME DATA IS WRONG (Almost neutral).


Fist Slam (Yeah, counting it as a special because it gets armor as well ONLY ON LEVEL 3 THOUGH) - 24 frames start up. Neutral on block.

Nothing you can do here. You can try jumping backwards but you'll just get hit. Better MB B3 to punish follow ups from mashing Banes I guess :/



How Venom Works:



Meaning that for 21 seconds of constant armor, 7 seconds of projectile invulnerability, increased damage and decreased damage taken, he gets a 6 second debuff where he doesn't do a lot of damage, gets 1.5x more damage and becomes slower. For 6 seconds. Sounds LEGIT.

This is where you have to chase him. Good Banes will keep hitting you so it just means, you have 6 seconds to play as you would against any other character in the game. Use your DB MB cancels and Super if you can.


I honestly don't know guys, discuss and stuff.
To correct a few things...

b.21 is the overhead, not b.23.

Technically f.2.d.3 is avoidable if you can manage to duck the 2nd bit, or at least to my knowledge it'll sometimes whiff on GA, Flash, and the like. Leaves us at -31.

The way MB VU works is this:

Distance + Delay = Safety. If the Bane doesn't delay and does it point blank, its -8. If he does it point blank but does delay, its around -6 or -5. It he is at least knee distance and doesn't delay, its about -5, and if he does delay its neutral. Anything from his ankles down will auto-delay and leave him at about... I wanna say anywhere from +7 to +13 at least.

As far as venom cooldown goes, honestly the MU is so shiet your better off collecting your 10% in chip damage than trying to approach. The best tool you have in this MU is Savage Blast, MB Savage Blast, and MB Stringer (and j.3 and hurricane bow to some extent). My advice? Never use Ice arrow, ever. It literally does nothing for you in this MU. In fact, regular arrow does the most because it really messes with Bane's ability to pressure you constantly with its huge advantage. If you knock Bane down, its usually best imo to dash in and then savage blast back out. If you do it right, you'll get your damage and recover in time to block and punish.

EDIT: Also, INB4 Doombawks says you can backdash half of his strings.
Doesn't do anything for arrow, sadly. The best option he has is to try and MB Savage away for damage and distance, but even thats questionable.
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
Premium Supporter
Cossner with dat downplay; Green Arrow is top tier, he has an ice projectile that freezes you.
 

ando1184

Noob
Green Arrow SAMU (Shitty Ass Match-up)

Bane Match up Description and Tips

Index:

- Overheads
- Lows
- Punishable Strings
- Special Moves
- Wake up Game
- How Venom Works
- Tips

Overheads:

f2d - 24 frames of start up. Neutral on block.
f3 - 40 frames of start up. +9 on block.
113 - +3 on block.
b23 - +4 on block.

Lows:

b1 - 17 frames of start up. +12 on block.
b2 - 18 frames of start up. -2 on block.
d1 - 11 frames of start up. +3 on block.
b11 - -2 on block.

^LIKE IF THE FRAME DATA MATTERS. Bane can just follow up with an armored move and punish WHATEVER you do.

Punishable strings:

F2 - -24 on block (gets armor at level 3)
112 - -14 on block.
(that's it).
Please note that Bane's B3 is -4, unlike the rest of the cast that's usually positive on block.

Special Moves:

Body Press (dbf3) - Command grab. If you're getting hit and in the ground it'll whiff.

You be punished by jumping backwards and J3 or Savage Blast.


Raging Charge (bf1) - 32 start up frames. Bane charges towards you.

There are 2 ways to punish this.
If he's in Venom Level 1 or 2, you can MB B3 when you're about to get hit. (Punish damage: Venom 1 30%, Venom 2 27%).
If you have a Frozen Arrow equipped, you can neutral jump/jump over and shoot an arrow. If they started the Raging Charge far away from you, it'll hit. If they're close to you and you neutral jump/jump forward, the arrow will be blockable. To make the arrow land, you can jump backwards. Timing is strict un the jumping, and it doesn't work if they do it literally next to you. It punishes the 3 levels of Venom.
If you don't want to take damage or you lack bars, you can jump and use Dead On.


Double Punch (bf2) - 16 start up frames. -5 on block.

You CANNOT punish this conventionally. Do not even TRY to D1. You can MB B3 through it unless he's at level 3.

You can hurricane blade afterwards, but it can be stuffed with Venom Uppercut, and if they block it you're open to a full combo punish.
The correct course of action after he does a double punch, is jumping backwards and J1/j3.
If they follow up with:
- D2/Ring Slam: You'll escape without getting hit. If you take too long he'll hit you, but if you're on point, it'll whiff.
- Double Punch: Do J1 -> F2D13 -> Frozen Arrow/Load Arrow.
- Venom Uppercut: Do J3 -> Dash forward -> D1 xx Hurricane Blade.
- Body Press: Do J1 -> F2D13 -> Frozen Arrow/Load Arrow.


Venom Uppercut (db2) - 14 start up frames. -31 on block.

After you block it, best punish with 2 bars:

111 xx db mb -> J3 -> J2 -> 111 xx Whatever

Best punish with a frozen arrow:

111 xx d4 -> B3 -> J3 -> J2 -> 111 xx Whatever

Best punish without bars or arrows:

113 -> J2 -> 111 xx Stinger
or
F2D13 xx dash forward (Yes, cancel it) -> 223 xx Hurricane Blade (Not very consistent)
or
223 xx Hurricane Blade (for consistency)


MB Venom Uppercut (MBdb2) - NOT -8 ON BLOCK. IN GAME DATA IS WRONG (Almost neutral).

This is very tricky. If you see the MB spark thing you have to IMMEDIATELY:

-MB B3 it. (Best option, but requires a bar).
- Dash forward and B3 (Just frame punish)
- Dash forward -> F2D13 (May whiff if they did it too close to you).

If you didn't react in time and you got hit, KEEP BLOCKING.


Fist Slam (Yeah, counting it as a special because it gets armor as well ONLY ON LEVEL 3 THOUGH) - 24 frames start up. Neutral on block.

Nothing you can do here. You can try jumping backwards but you'll just get hit. Better MB B3 to punish follow ups from mashing Banes I guess :/


Wake up Game:

Savage Blast
Beats: Body Press, Venom Uppercut, Fist Slam
Gets beaten by: d2/b2 shenanigans, Double Punch, Raging Charge
(50% chance of guessing correctly).

Stinger
Beats: Double Punch
Gets beaten by: Venom Uppercut, d2/b2 shenanigans, Body Press, Fist Slam
(20% chance of guessing correctly)

Hurricane Blade
Beats: b2 cancel shenanigans.
Gets beaten by: d2, Venom Uppercut, Double Punch, Raging Charge, Body press, Fist Slam
(14% chance of guessing correctly)

Backdash
Beats: Raging Charge (you can block it at least)
Gets beaten by: Double Punch, d2/b2 shenanigans, Body Press, Venom Uppercut, Fist Slam.
(16% chance of guessing correctly)

Standing block:
Blocks: Double Punch, D2, Venom Uppercut, Raging Charge, Fist Slam.
Gets hit by: B2, Body Press, Grab.
(62% chance of blocking something)

Crouching block:
Blocks: D2, Venom Uppercut, Raging Charge, B2
Gets hit by: Double Punch, Body Press, Grab, Fist Slam.
(50% change of blocking something).

How Venom Works:



Meaning that for 21 seconds of constant armor, 7 seconds of projectile invulnerability, increased damage and decreased damage taken, he gets a 6 second debuff where he doesn't do a lot of damage, gets 1.5x more damage and becomes slower. For 6 seconds. Sounds LEGIT.

This is where you have to chase him. Good Banes will keep hitting you so it just means, you have 6 seconds to play as you would against any other character in the game. Use your DB MB cancels and Super if you can.

General Tips:

- Do not do your normal up close pressure. It's useless in this match up.
- Do not do F3 after normal arrow on hit. They can escape with armor (ridiculous).
- Wake up at your own risk. It's better if you don't, and even then you're not safe.
- Run away if you can. If he's up close, try to punish whatever he does. You CANNOT be offensive unless he's debuffed (remember, you only have 6 seconds).


Is this the Jade - Kenshi of Injustice? Yup. Probably worse.

I honestly don't know guys, discuss and stuff.
Please make one of these for MMH and DD as well