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Giovanna - General Discussion

Gooberking

FGC Cannon Fodder
So I've found some stuff that I just straight up haven't seen anyone anywhere do.

1) Counter hit c.S dash cancel c.S, c.S is a thing. CH gives you even more advantage, and c.S has crazy good hit advantage to start with and the dash leaves you incredibly close, so the distance to link two more isn't a problem, no matter where you start.

2) c.S links into fully charged 5D, which has done more damage than the other combo routes I use. Basically c.S , 5D (hold), 5K~214K, 5K~214K OTG 5K or c.S. You get gravity scaling from repeated c.S, but you can always do at least one 5K~214K. I'm not good at combos in this game, so I'm sure there's someone who can do a whole lot more with this than I'm doing.
I'm wondering if these aren't true combos. A lot of anime games have combos that still increment the counter but aren't guaranteed if the opponent does an escape or something.

In this case I can do what I think you are describing but the combo counter shows a blueish purple color instead of the grey. And setting the cpu to guard after the first hit I haven't been able to land the sequences. Color variation in the combo counter is typically an avoidable combo.

I'm not totally sure what it means in this game since there aren't air escapes and if you can block why would it increment the counter?


***Edit so I just noticed the counter hit requirement you mentioned so I guess I should read better and try that. Still wondering why the combo counter changes color.

Yeah combos on CH. I should know better than to question. You've shown to be very good at finding stuff. I guess maybe the color shift means it's only true on counter hit?
 
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Second Saint

A man with too many names.
I'm wondering if these aren't true combos. A lot of anime games have combos that still increment the counter but aren't guaranteed if the opponent does an escape or something.

In this case I can do what I think you are describing but the combo counter shows a blueish purple color instead of the grey. And setting the cpu to guard after the first hit I haven't been able to land the sequences. Color variation in the combo counter is typically an avoidable combo.

I'm not totally sure what it means in this game since there aren't air escapes and if you can block why would it increment the counter?


***Edit so I just noticed the counter hit requirement you mentioned so I guess I should read better and try that. Still wondering why the combo counter changes color.

Yeah combos on CH. I should know better than to question. You've shown to be very good at finding stuff. I guess maybe the color shift means it's only true on counter hit?
No, I talked to people. You're right, it's fake and they can block it. No idea how I was supposed to know that the combo counter lied.

Hours of my life finding combo routes gone.
 

Gooberking

FGC Cannon Fodder
No, I talked to people. You're right, it's fake and they can block it. No idea how I was supposed to know that the combo counter lied.

Hours of my life finding combo routes gone.
Not sure I totally follow the original post, but it did get me going down counter hit dash c.S (which I'm hoping means close slash) into c.S > stuff routes. As near as I can tell you cannot get out of that. Not with CPU settings or me trying a recording of myself. The way people press on wakeup, a dash in counter hit c.S is very realistic to get.

So stuff like dash c.S, c.S, 2S, 2HS, 214k, 214k seems to do more damage than other close range starting routes. Some simple stuff with supers does good damage like counter hit dash c.S, c.S, 2D, super or don't super for a HKD(?). Counter hit dash c.S, c.S, 6HS, HS, Air super is decent damage + carry. Think counter hit dash c.S, c.S, 2S, 2HS, super is the most damage I've gotten but barely more than the c.S, c.S, 2D, super and may be unreliable and or character dependent on damage. Damage I'm really not sure how to judge. It just always seems different per attempt for no real apparent reason.

I've really got no idea what I'm doing, getting bodied all the time, so I've got no idea what is a good idea. That was just stuff I ended up playing around with because of your post.

Counter hit dash c.S, c.S, 2S, HS, Super also works does the weird pickup thing where they hit the ground hard but you still seem to be able to keep the combo going.


**edit
And for a point of clarification, it sounded like you were trying to dash cancel into another c.S that isn't necessary. You can just delay the second button press long enough to bypass the gatling chain into the fast kicks sequence and get another c.S which actually seems to put them airborne. As near as I can tell that is a true combo as long as the first hit is a counter hit.
 
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Second Saint

A man with too many names.
Not sure I totally follow the original post, but it did get me going down counter hit dash c.S (which I'm hoping means close slash) into c.S > stuff routes. As near as I can tell you cannot get out of that. Not with CPU settings or me trying a recording of myself. The way people press on wakeup, a dash in counter hit c.S is very realistic to get.

So stuff like dash c.S, c.S, 2S, 2HS, 214k, 214k seems to do more damage than other close range starting routes. Some simple stuff with supers does good damage like counter hit dash c.S, c.S, 2D, super or don't super for a HKD(?). Counter hit dash c.S, c.S, 6HS, HS, Air super is decent damage + carry. Think counter hit dash c.S, c.S, 2S, 2HS, super is the most damage I've gotten but barely more than the c.S, c.S, 2D, super and may be unreliable and or character dependent on damage. Damage I'm really not sure how to judge. It just always seems different per attempt for no real apparent reason.

I've really got no idea what I'm doing, getting bodied all the time, so I've got no idea what is a good idea. That was just stuff I ended up playing around with because of your post.

Counter hit dash c.S, c.S, 2S, HS, Super also works does the weird pickup thing where they hit the ground hard but you still seem to be able to keep the combo going.


**edit
And for a point of clarification, it sounded like you were trying to dash cancel into another c.S that isn't necessary. You can just delay the second button press long enough to bypass the gatling chain into the fast kicks sequence and get another c.S which actually seems to put them airborne. As near as I can tell that is a true combo as long as the first hit is a counter hit.
So, when the combo counter turns blue, that means that your opponent is actually able to block. So counter hit c.S dash c.S x2 isn't real. You can get the first one still, but not the second. Linking into 5D is the same, except off the initial counter hit.
 

Gooberking

FGC Cannon Fodder
So, when the combo counter turns blue, that means that your opponent is actually able to block. So counter hit c.S dash c.S x2 isn't real. You can get the first one still, but not the second. Linking into 5D is the same, except off the initial counter hit.
Yeah, that is what I ran into and assuming it meant.

I think the more specific meaning is it will combo on counter hit, but you can't really plan for CH's in the middle of a combo. It probably says somewhere in the trials I only did half of.
 
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Gooberking

FGC Cannon Fodder
@Second Saint so, have you played with what you were looking at after a blue RC? Seems like the blue combos are also true combo during a blue RC, so you could do stuff like backdash into drift blue RC for a wiff punish.

You probably won't be getting a lot of counter hits as opposed to punishes from wiffs, but there is some prolonged slow state that lets you get away with very similar things. You could get counter hits too, but I'm guessing you would be talking about reading an incoming attack and using it to sneak in. I do think people are starting to do that and think about using BRC's in fights.
 

Gooberking

FGC Cannon Fodder
I definitely feel like I'm way behind on whatever is possible, so I sure don't know. Do think I've seen some some jumping of some kind following up on the little pickup strike, but I've not really gotten into the safe jump stuff despite knowing they exist. I do know you can get a 2k and maybe a 5k after a throw into the corner and get that pickup, but I'm not sure it ties them up long enough for an actual safe jump.

At this point I Just run a few games in the park every 2-3 days but that's about it. A couple nights ago I finally ran into another Gio player that stomped on me super hard for a long while that clearly had better notes.
 

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
I definitely feel like I'm way behind on whatever is possible, so I sure don't know. Do think I've seen some some jumping of some kind following up on the little pickup strike, but I've not really gotten into the safe jump stuff despite knowing they exist. I do know you can get a 2k and maybe a 5k after a throw into the corner and get that pickup, but I'm not sure it ties them up long enough for an actual safe jump.

At this point I Just run a few games in the park every 2-3 days but that's about it. A couple nights ago I finally ran into another Gio player that stomped on me super hard for a long while that clearly had better notes.
There are definitely other safe jump routes, but none as far as I'm aware after you spend meter for a launch.

You can get a safejump from throws in general already without the otg, but you can also get it from Throw c. S in the corner, though it is stupid hard for no reason.
 

Arqwart

Resident "Subhuman Piece of Trash" Edenian Player
Took a break from the game for a bit and am planning to get back at it soon. Been watching videos of Ty and Marn's Giovannas. I've a LOT to learn from those two, especially for pressure options. I rely way too heavily on Sol Poente and Trovao gimmicks for pressure which I now understand is why I struggle so much at opening up good opponents.

Some cool stuff I've seen from Ty and Marn:
  1. Safe jumps are way too powerful to ignore and I have to start using them, especially since you can condition people into expecting them then simply empty jump into 2S
  2. 5K Sepultura looping in juggle combos is one of the best sources of damage.
  3. Ty does this insane 50/50 wakeup option in the corner where he does a VERY deep j.S meaty. This leads to either him landing to do 2S or double-jumping into instant j.H -> Tempestade. Even if they block the triple overhead, you're now +5 in the corner.
  4. I am not using 2D enough at all. It contests big reach characters, has the delay that regularly results in counter hits, and its disjointed hurtbox is silly.
  5. Upward RRC after Sol Poente can allow for potent combos via j.D loops.
  6. c.S -> 2D/2S conditioning into c.S -> 5D RRC instant cancel -> c.S is a really simple way to get free combos or pressure with 0 risk involved. It appears to work as an OS because instant-canceling 5D into c.S is entirely safe on block and the 5D on hit floats the opponent into an easy juggle combo with the instant RRC. Looks like Ty does c.S, 5D, RRC cancel into c.S, 2H, Sepultura, 5K, Sepultura.

 

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
Took a break from the game for a bit and am planning to get back at it soon. Been watching videos of Ty and Marn's Giovannas. I've a LOT to learn from those two, especially for pressure options. I rely way too heavily on Sol Poente and Trovao gimmicks for pressure which I now understand is why I struggle so much at opening up good opponents.

Some cool stuff I've seen from Ty and Marn:
  1. Safe jumps are way too powerful to ignore and I have to start using them, especially since you can condition people into expecting them then simply empty jump into 2S
  2. 5K Sepultura looping in juggle combos is one of the best sources of damage.
  3. Ty does this insane 50/50 wakeup option in the corner where he does a VERY deep j.S meaty. This leads to either him landing to do 2S or double-jumping into instant j.H -> Tempestade. Even if they block the triple overhead, you're now +5 in the corner.
  4. I am not using 2D enough at all. It contests big reach characters, has the delay that regularly results in counter hits, and its disjointed hurtbox is silly.
  5. Upward RRC after Sol Poente can allow for potent combos via j.D loops.
  6. c.S -> 2D/2S conditioning into c.S -> 5D RRC instant cancel -> c.S is a really simple way to get free combos or pressure with 0 risk involved. It appears to work as an OS because instant-canceling 5D into c.S is entirely safe on block and the 5D on hit floats the opponent into an easy juggle combo with the instant RRC. Looks like Ty does c.S, 5D, RRC cancel into c.S, 2H, Sepultura, 5K, Sepultura.

In regards to 3, you can also do a jk -> jD and cancel that into jH after the first hit of dust. More overheads to throw them off with, though it can be harder to execute.

I'm a big believer in 2D, especially 5K->2D because it catches most people that mash, while being low risk, with much more consistent reward than 214K. Not to mention that meaty 2D becomes very plus if done correctly. Also, I found out a really silly punish, though I don't know if it can be done on reaction where if Millia does her low hair charge move you can clash with it using 2D, and then she's in counter recovery for the rest of the duration of the move, without being able to hurt you. I got to do this several times in a set, though I'm unsure if I could do it on reaction at all.
 

Gooberking

FGC Cannon Fodder
2D has some wild utility but I've had to force myself to really use it for some reason.

I've watched some of Marn's and was kind of like "welp, I'm way behind and not doing any of that anytime soon." Whatever that double kick combo business is about is wild.

Really Not played much lately and really just dropping everything. I'm kind of playing about as much as I care to invest at, so I'm probably at whatever level I'm going to be getting to at this point. I'd like to not be as flaky with my execution, but I generally can run even with VIP's and I think that is about my target involvement for the game for the moment.

I do like playing the game and Gio. I've tried characters in some games, and get the feeling some characters in this one can kind of push average players into just going ham and hoping it works out. With Gio I do feel like I'm thinking kind of whole brained about stuff, and choosing what I do deliberately tailored to who I'm fighting. I run into people and walk away feeling like "we can do this all day but you can't win.". And if I'm getting beat, it's probably the reverse (or it's Leo/Millia/Chipp shenanigans I'm helpless against).

It's been pretty rewarding to play her and this game in that respect.
 

Arqwart

Resident "Subhuman Piece of Trash" Edenian Player
2D has some wild utility but I've had to force myself to really use it for some reason.

I've watched some of Marn's and was kind of like "welp, I'm way behind and not doing any of that anytime soon." Whatever that double kick combo business is about is wild.

Really Not played much lately and really just dropping everything. I'm kind of playing about as much as I care to invest at, so I'm probably at whatever level I'm going to be getting to at this point. I'd like to not be as flaky with my execution, but I generally can run even with VIP's and I think that is about my target involvement for the game for the moment.

I do like playing the game and Gio. I've tried characters in some games, and get the feeling some characters in this one can kind of push average players into just going ham and hoping it works out. With Gio I do feel like I'm thinking kind of whole brained about stuff, and choosing what I do deliberately tailored to who I'm fighting. I run into people and walk away feeling like "we can do this all day but you can't win.". And if I'm getting beat, it's probably the reverse (or it's Leo/Millia/Chipp shenanigans I'm helpless against).

It's been pretty rewarding to play her and this game in that respect.
I feel like Marn and Ty's crazy high execution hype shit like Sol Poente combos and 2-hit hit confirms into super are a pipe dream to integrate regularly. They play a ridiculous amount, lab like crazy, have training partners, and compete professionally. Out of everything they do, I find the most important skills to focus on are the ones that are highly consistent. In this case, the usage of 2D, how to consistently get good damage on juggles, and safe jumps are what I find most valuable.

As for the constant thinking aspect, that is definitely one thing that shocked me a lot. The way Giovanna is presented on paper is extremely basic, resulting in a very low skill floor. However, Strive making each character sorta "cheat" mechanics in some unique way leaves the player having to figure out very specific things to do in every matchup.

Edit: Ironically, the coolest yet most frustrating part about GGStrive is that design style of everyone being so different. It makes some matchups fun as hell to navigate and others an absolute nightmare.
 
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