Getting better

[ArsenalOfGlory]

I posted this here because UMK3 is my preferred game, but I think this applies to every game.

When I was younger, I would just play my friends in MK. We would never block, and we would only two 2 or 3 hit combos at most. We didn't know what we were doing, just goofing around and trying to do animalities and shit like that. As I got older, I started taking the game a bit more seriously. I played some out of state friends over Kaillera, but I was never really that good at it.

Then we flash forward a few years to the 360 version of UMK3. I get online, and I immediately get destroyed by stuff I didn't even think possible. I remember specifically the first time I was annihilated was by a Stryker player. At the time I was thinking "wtf who would pick Stryker, and why". I soon found out why after I was double flawlessed.

So I dug around online a bit, found ultimatemk.com and was amazed. I decided that I wanted to play like that and I started devoting time to seriously learning combos and punishes and things of such natures.

Well, it didn't help a god damned bit because I still got my ass handed to me left and right. Certain players just annihilated me every time I played them. I'm talking about completely one sided matches. These are the kinds of people I should be playing? According to the vast majority of competitive players, the answer is a resounding "yes". They say in order to get better, you must play people who are better than you.

I disagree.

I think the only way to get better is to play people who are the same level as you. If both you and the person you're playing are roughly the same level, it's only a matter of time until one of you surpasses the other. The one who does gets to move on to a higher level and face those slightly better players, while the loser stays put and keeps up his practicing. This is a much more gradual slope to being better and I think it will be more effective long-term.

The main reason I think this way is because if a match is completely one sided, you gain absolutely nothing from it except discouragement and doubt. If you're constantly being beaten down over and over against someone and you realize you don't have a chance, all you have learned is that you don't stand a chance. You don't throw yourself into the deep end of the pool to learn to swim. Certainly there are those of you who manage to swim and save yourselves from a watery demise, but nine time out of ten, you just drown.

When I started MK9, it was new to everyone. Some stuff was certainly familiar, but it was all new. I learned with the people I played with, and they were the same skill level as me. Eventually I surpassed some of them, and eventually the majority of them surpassed me, but we all started at the same place. We didn't go out looking for beat downs to make ourselves better. We learned bit by bit how to compete and when we reached a new level, we moved on.

So basically, the point of my thread is why? Why are we told to play those who are miles beyond us instead of focusing on those who are our level? It just seems like really bad advice to me. You don't start out fighting the heavyweight champion. You start out fighting the nobodies with shitty records and you work your way to the top.

 

[STB Bodam]

Same here, bro.

To me, it's really more about match-up experience anyway since nothing to me is more valuable than that. You can learn certain tricks against characters and if you can apply it -- it's the best way to approach a character if you struggle against them.

However, I do think if you find the right high level partner that truly believes in you and can give helpful information about what you can do that would be better is the fastest way to level up. Honestly, I personally credit ChronicOverburn, Superi0rMagik, Book Burning and gr8one with helping me in various ways like showing me what's effective and telling me each and every thing that I could do better. You'll craft your own game and style -- it'll evolve over time as long as you stick with it.

 

[chessmaster]

i agree. definitely with the part about it being discouraging getting your ass handed to you but at the same time you really dont learn much either contrary to popular belief. i started playing online when mk9 first came out and i would face whoever challenged me and would get my ass kicked by pretty much everyone. then i started to play only people with close to my record(garbage) and noticed immediately that the matches were a lot closer. i played only people close to my record for a while and practiced almost as much as i played. now i have gone back to playing whoever. i have noticed im better since the game first came out but still suck. so yeah, its not definitive but it might be better to play people closer to your skill first then move up. and practice helps(muscle memory).

 

[MIKECALDWELL]

How can you learn anything from someone that is of equal skill? You already know everything the other guy knows. I can relate to this topic more so from a MK2 perspective. I took a 15-20 streak nearly every time I played elite players for the first 6 months. To be able to compete with the best is a very slow process. It took me at least 2 years before I could go back and forth with elite players, and MK2 is more basic than UMK3. I'm sure it would take longer to reach that level in UMK3. I would suggest playing players of all skill levels. Try to learn everything you can from the elite players, and then incorporate those tactics against the lesser skilled guys. Once you've perfected your new found tactics on the weaker players, you'll see yourself gradually moving up the ladder.

 

[ArsenalOfGlory]

How can you learn anything from someone that is of equal skill? You already know everything the other guy knows. I can relate to this topic more so from a MK2 perspective. I took a 15-20 streak nearly every time I played elite players for the first 6 months. To be able to compete with the best is a very slow process. It took me at least 2 years before I could go back and forth with elite players, and MK2 is more basic than UMK3. I'm sure it would take longer to reach that level in UMK3. I would suggest playing players of all skill levels. Try to learn everything you can from the elite players, and then incorporate those tactics against the lesser skilled guys. Once you've perfected your new found tactics on the weaker players, you'll see yourself gradually moving up the ladder.

I think this mentality is pure ego. Fighting someone who is miles beyond you is way more limiting than fighting someone the same level as you. How are you supposed to learn how to punish or counter if their offense is relentless? What happens is you get locked down in a crouching block and chip to death via jabs, unable to move. That doesn't teach you a god damned thing.

Playing someone your own skill and moving on to tougher opponents as you go is way more long term than playing someone above your skill.

 

[MIKECALDWELL]

ArsenalOfGlory
You learn how to play the game more effectively when you play better players. You take a mental note of how they're beating you and then try to incorporate that. It doesn't matter that you couldn't move. At least you were introduced to techniques that win. I understand what you mean by being locked down, but they do that to each other. It's just part of it. My point is that it's a slower learning process when you're playing someone that doesn't take advantage of their opportunities or makes several mistakes giving you opportunities you never should have had in the first place. This is all my opinion of course, so take it for what it's worth.

 

[G4S Claude VonStroke]

I spent some time with Swift Tom hanks, Ac1984, and Death a few weeks ago and i learned more in the short time by getting my ass kicked than i had in the previous 8 months before probably. I didn't get discouraged when i was losing a lot. I had to analyze what i was doing wrong and I get better. Not that i'm great but i've been slowly improving since then.

 

[lazybird123]

I think we need to define what we mean by "playing" here:

If we mean in a competetive setting, then no, playing against players better than you doesn't really help unless you already have a grasp of the game.

On the other hand, sitting around playing casuals with some good players will definitely improve your game more than competitively playing against people your level. What playing against people your level does is actually allow you to do what you learned from those better than you.

 

[AREZ God of War]

Both answers are correct. You will learn a better overall mastery of the game working your way up w/ people of similar skill, however playing people will teach split-second reactions time, good defense, force you to max-out damage, and you will be able to see what each character can potentially do at higher levels (which means you are unlikely to get surprised by things you never seen before).

I feel like Arsenal does often and playing some people can be quite depressing lol, but I always just kept going at it and it DOES pay off eventually. It really depends on the person, how fast they pick stuff up, their dedication-level, etc. Playing in general makes you better. Now when you're learning large difficult combos, you don't read it to yourself off the list, then immediately go try to practice it in a match that's ridiculously paced and opportunities to do it are random - you practice the timing on a dummy-character until you master the timing THEN try it under pressure once u can do it consistently.

Practicing combos on dummy-characters does alot more than people credit in regards to learning timing and it's a great way to learn to Max-out damage on your combos. Unfortunately when it comes to UMK3, defense is so important to learn because the tools we are given are pretty shabby and it's an offense-based game, therefore learning to master those few defensive tactics we have is crucial and playing people who force you to use them to even GET on offense will do wonders for your game.

1. Grasp the game and practice your combos and basics until u master them
2. Develop a strategy and study match-up possibilities
3. Fight good players and ask how to get around certain tactics and strategies AS THEY OCCUR (don't wait, you'll forget lol)
4. Learn from your mistakes, and adjust your game
5. Kick ass.
6. Try different types of shoes if your feet start to hurt.

 

[Goku]

MIKECALDWELL A vast majority of the players do not think that way though. Getting their ass handed to them WILL NOT encourage them whatsoever to continue playing the game or get better at it either. IMO, many what you call "Good" or "Valuable" players use extremely cheap or boring tactics to win anyway, it will just influence the under men to do the same.

 

[Juggs]

When we say "play people better than you", it certainly doesn't apply to everyone. Meaning, if you don't know why you're losing to these better players, you're obviously not going to learn anything. Once you get to a level where you understand the game enough to realize why you're getting beaten, that's when you should be playing better players consistently.

For me though, playing better players has always been the way I improved. I played UMK3 for over a year, and didn't really improve until I played top players for like a month. I leveled up more in a month than I did in over a year. But you can also learn a lot from playing players in the same skill level. It doesn't matter if they're the same skilled really, you can still learn a lot. It let's you also get a better feel of the game when you're not getting double flawlessed and are actually able to compete. The problem is people just stay at this comfortable zone of playing players of equal skill. There's only so much you can improve by playing these players. Once you're comfortable enough with the game and have knowledge, start playing better players.

 

[AREZ God of War]

When we say "play people better than you", it certainly doesn't apply to everyone. Meaning, if you don't know why you're losing to these better players, you're obviously not going to learn anything. Once you get to a level where you understand the game enough to realize why you're getting beaten, that's when you should be playing better players consistently.

For me though, playing better players has always been the way I improved. I played UMK3 for over a year, and didn't really improve until I played top players for like a month. I leveled up more in a month than I did in over a year. But you can also learn a lot from playing players in the same skill level. It doesn't matter if they're the same skilled really, you can still learn a lot. It let's you also get a better feel of the game when you're not getting double flawlessed and are actually able to compete. The problem is people just stay at this comfortable zone of playing players of equal skill. There's only so much you can improve by playing these players. Once you're comfortable enough with the game and have knowledge, start playing better players.

^^^^That was kinda what I was trying to explain, but you did it better, Tyler.

 

[MIKECALDWELL]

I'm not telling beginners to go around looking for elite players to play. Playing a better player doesn't mean facing someone that's leaps and bounds ahead of you in the game.

 

[NoDoubt]

I'm not telling beginners to go around looking for elite players to play. Playing a better player doesn't mean facing someone that's leaps and bounds ahead of you in the game.

when i first started umk3 I only played mainly wit marvirrasta, w1nter, MkMan, livewire, Miss Spin, ect (one of the bests around online) and made top 5 at my 1st tourney havin only played the game for 5 months.

not sayin it always works to jump right in ass beatingz 4 everyone but it beat me in shape faster than i ever imagined


*id say the trick is always watch and study. I did play lots of 1v1s with big dogs but id frequently make sure id join rooms with 3 or more to see what players do in situations. it helps alot.

 

[OUIJA WARRIOR]

*id say the trick is always watch and study. I did play lots of 1v1s with big dogs but id frequently make sure id join rooms with 3 or more to see what players do in situations. it helps alot.

Definitely. That's why I like to upload UMK3 matches with a full room of players. Different styles of play collide and you can see how players react.

 

[MIKECALDWELL]

It's too bad for us new guys that we don't have the option of spectating matches on Xbox.

 

[ArsenalOfGlory]

Arcade Kollection really could have used a KOTH/Spectator Lobby mode. It's really shitty when you think about it.

 

[Juggs]

MKAK is very shitty. I mean, it's enough that the netcode is awful, but there's no features not even basic ones like spectating/lobbies. I don't even like to think about it, makes me angry.

 

[NoDoubt]

It's too bad for us new guys that we don't have the option of spectating matches on Xbox.

thats why Mame > the world. again lol

youtube has some nice ones XD

 

[ArsenalOfGlory]

At least it doesn't lag like a son of a bitch anymore. Still, it's a barebones port. The only redeeming value is that it has all three games together. But even that is kind of worthless. I had the original MKII for PSN and UMK3 for 360. I don't really care about MK1 at all. It's just nice to have the other two together, and with the controller I prefer.