Frost Ice Machine Matchups

[JSF]

Hello i believe myself to be oneof the better Frost players and one of the only Frost mains playing competitvely so here are what i believe her matchups are.
I dont believe in the whole 5-5 or 7-3 terminology so i just have them listed as advantage, or disadvantage.
Format: Character(Variation) - Adv or Disadv for Frost.

Baraka(both) - Slight Advantage
Cassie(DS) - Extreme Disadvantage
Cetrion(SC) - Extreme Disadvantage
D'vorah - Possibly Advantage but not enough data
Erron Black(52) - Disadvantage
Geras(IW) - Extreme Disadvantage
Jacqui(1H) - Slight Disadvantage
Jade(ED) - Advantage
Jax (Both) - Even, Possible Slight Disadvantage
Johnny Cage(SJ) - Slight Advantage Possibly Even
Kabal(Both) - Even
Kano (R) - Even
Kitana(FF) - Even
Kollector(BP) - Possibly Even but not enough data
Kotal Kahn(A) - Even, Possibly Advantage
Kung Lao(both) - Slight Disadvantage
Liu Kang(LQ) - Even, Possibly Slight Disadvantage. (WL) - Slight Disadvantage Possibly Even
Noob Saibot(DS) - Disadvantage. (SD) - Even.
Raiden(TW) - Slight Disadvantage
Scorpion(both) - Disadvantage
Shang Tsung(W) - Disadvantage
Shao Kahn(RE) - Advantage, Possibly Even
Skarlet(HP) - Disadvantage
Sonya(R) - Even, Possibly Slight Disadvantage
Sub Zero(DW) - Slight Advantage. (TI) - Disadvantage.
Nightwolf (MW) - Even, Possibly Slight Advantage


The "Extreme Disadvantage" matchups are the ones that i would say are borderline unwinnable if played properly by your opponent.
Any comments, questions, disagree or agree with it?

8/1/19: made some minor tweaks, added some "possibles" switched kotal to even.

9/12/19: Made lots of changes due to the patch among other things.

 

[Wigy]

Frost bodies Johnny cage

I think she may even be slightly advantage against Jax

Her u3 is a pretty good answer to his Oki shenanigans and she can give him a lot of trouble getting in. good jax's try sneak in grenade trades for a knockdown to push in, shield and her own grenade both stop that. He has stubby pokes so can't contest d4 Oki in the corner very well.

Really don't know how she goes even with sonya. Zoning is extremely dangerous and she does about twice as much damage and is better up close. The Sonya lack of mid thing is not an issue with frost cause she's even worse on that department.

The mb ice ball variation of sub I think she does pretty decent. Shield absolutely shuts down his counter zoning in that MU and he's heavily reliant on f4.

Everything else I either agree or don't have strong opinions on.

 

[santanabar]

Frost bodies Johnny cage

I think she may even be slightly advantage against Jax

Her u3 is a pretty good answer to his Oki shenanigans and she can give him a lot of trouble getting in. good jax's try sneak in grenade trades for a knockdown to push in, shield and her own grenade both stop that. He has stubby pokes so can't contest d4 Oki in the corner very well.

Really don't know how she goes even with sonya. Zoning is extremely dangerous and she does about twice as much damage and is better up close. The Sonya lack of mid thing is not an issue with frost cause she's even worse on that department.

The mb ice ball variation of sub I think she does pretty decent. Shield absolutely shuts down his counter zoning in that MU and he's heavily reliant on f4.

Everything else I either agree or don't have strong opinions on.

I dont play Sonya, why so many ppl say "lack of mid"? Her F4 is 10 frames, and B2 11... Yeah they don't lead to 40% dmg like B1, but I think you cant get around 20%

 

[Wigy]

I dont play Sonya, why so many ppl say "lack of mid"? Her F4 is 10 frames, and B2 11... Yeah they don't lead to 40% dmg like B1, but I think you cant get around 20%

I know I agree. Her mids are fine they're just not hugely threatening. In some matchups you can exploit it a little.

Sonya comfortably beats frost imo

 

[CasualPlayer]

I Have doubts about sonya , noob, and baraka matchups
in my opinion I believe Sonya is a heavy disadvantage for frost its impossible keep her in the mid range due to her excellent projectiles which forces frost to fight up close where she absolutely is at a disadvantage against Sonya.

Noob- I feel like is even. Frost has enough tools to counter what he likes to do( just in my opinion).
Baraka- From my experience is a tough matchup, it seems like he has every tool frost has including Range but better frames and damage.

and I'm curious about your reasoning for the extreme disadvantage with the scorpion match up. I Honestly feel like thats an even matchup.

 

[JSF]

Frost bodies Johnny cage

I think she may even be slightly advantage against Jax

Her u3 is a pretty good answer to his Oki shenanigans and she can give him a lot of trouble getting in. good jax's try sneak in grenade trades for a knockdown to push in, shield and her own grenade both stop that. He has stubby pokes so can't contest d4 Oki in the corner very well.

Really don't know how she goes even with sonya. Zoning is extremely dangerous and she does about twice as much damage and is better up close. The Sonya lack of mid thing is not an issue with frost cause she's even worse on that department.

The mb ice ball variation of sub I think she does pretty decent. Shield absolutely shuts down his counter zoning in that MU and he's heavily reliant on f4.

Everything else I either agree or don't have strong opinions on.

i don't have the most cage experience so i don't see how she bodies him but i could see her having a slight advantage, she doesn't out range him like she does in most of her favorable matchups and between his fireballs and shadow kick she has to zone carefully.

the thing about Sonya is if you aren't god at zoning you'll get bodied and id say about 80% of people who play this game aren't great at zoning which is understandable because it isn't a zoning heavy game but if you are a good zoner its possible to make Sonya respect your zoning, she has her drone to shut you down but you shouldn't be trying to just stay fullscreen, you zone until she approaches about half screen then you out range her and make her respect b2, db2 close/mid range and sweep. Frost doesn't win but if you play it right she has to respect your tools. up close you get smoked and fullscreen if you're in drone range you have trouble. Basically if Sonya gets a substantial life lead on you from only zoning you need to work on your zoning.

also the beauty of Frost and zoning is that her fatal blow goes fullscreen so you dont have to win the zoning war you just have to stay alive and get them to 33% then if they jump or do any projectile you win so that helps her zoning game out a lot, they have to respect fatal or they eat it.

 

[JSF]

made minor updates to the OP. Leaving this for documentation purposes.

 

[Kindred]

@JSF I agree with pretty much everything you wrote except I see these MUs a little bit differently

Cassie(DS) - Extreme Disadvantage
Erron Black(52) - Extreme Disadvantage
Jade(ED) - Advantage
Kabal(Both) - Slight Advantage, Possibly Even
Liu Kang(LQ) - Even, Possibly Slight Disadvantage. Loses to his other variation.

Cassie most definitely has an advantage over Frost but I wouldn’t say extreme. A lot of her moves that give pushback are used to keep her safe but Frost’s range guarantees that she loses her turn. I also don’t find Cassie’s zoning that oppressive. Frost’s DB2 is great in those scenarios and paired with the shield it can shut down the zoning quickly.

Erron Black MU is similar I find to Cassie, wherein his pushback doesn’t protect him. His zoning is good but he can’t scud shot DB2.

I would say Jade has a Slight Advantage. Her zoning also gets shut down because of DB2 and her pressure isn’t insane to the point that Frost can’t get out of it. Her advantage comes from her range + better mids than Frost. The reaction of Jade players when they get hit with DB2 even after activating their projectile invincibility is beautiful

Kabal I would say is at an advantage (more than just slight), maybe even extreme. He’s got the range to rival Frost, better pressure (faster moves, restand or cancels, 50/50), he can zone really well because the recovery is fast, his FB is full screen and fast, and all his strings are safe and none are flawless blockable.

Liu Kang’s LQ variation shuts down Frost up close I find. The only option is to try to zone him and he’s pretty good in that department too. Frost’s range is the main obstacle but with a bit of patience, Frost inevitably ends up in his face. I wouldn’t say it’s an extreme advantage but I would definitely say Advantage.

 

[JSF]

@JSF I agree with pretty much everything you wrote except I see these MUs a little bit differently



Cassie most definitely has an advantage over Frost but I wouldn’t say extreme. A lot of her moves that give pushback are used to keep her safe but Frost’s range guarantees that she loses her turn. I also don’t find Cassie’s zoning that oppressive. Frost’s DB2 is great in those scenarios and paired with the shield it can shut down the zoning quickly.

Erron Black MU is similar I find to Cassie, wherein his pushback doesn’t protect him. His zoning is good but he can’t scud shot DB2.

I would say Jade has a Slight Advantage. Her zoning also gets shut down because of DB2 and her pressure isn’t insane to the point that Frost can’t get out of it. Her advantage comes from her range + better mids than Frost. The reaction of Jade players when they get hit with DB2 even after activating their projectile invincibility is beautiful

Kabal I would say is at an advantage (more than just slight), maybe even extreme. He’s got the range to rival Frost, better pressure (faster moves, restand or cancels, 50/50), he can zone really well because the recovery is fast, his FB is full screen and fast, and all his strings are safe and none are flawless blockable.

Liu Kang’s LQ variation shuts down Frost up close I find. The only option is to try to zone him and he’s pretty good in that department too. Frost’s range is the main obstacle but with a bit of patience, Frost inevitably ends up in his face. I wouldn’t say it’s an extreme advantage but I would definitely say Advantage.

Cassie is really bad because she wins no matter where she is on the screen. she handily outzones Frost and shield can be broken by straight gunshot. she wins the midrange with f2 and b2 among other things and up close she has f4. if you try to press anyting after she does f4 into nothing she can b2 and full combo you for it. her pressure against Frost is insane.

Frost beats Jade. Last i heard KP and Jade players agreed (if thats important to you). db2 punishes glow and she cant throw air glaives because of db2 and without db she now has to deal with bf3 and it shuts down her zoning game so she has to come in, the fact that she cant really get a full combo helps too. Frost also isnt outranged by her aside from her overhead string which is 22f? Frost wins the zoning and the mid range. Yes from close range Jade does well but she can do any real damage from that range so it isnt a big deal.

Kabal gets outranged and outzoned by Frost slightly but only if you can avoid getting hit by his projectiles because they knock down. He also does less damage than Frost. When he has FB he completely dominates her but he does that to everyone. MU might be even but he definitely doesnt win.

I agree with your LQ Liu Kang MU analysis but she does outzone him and beat him in the mid range. Flying kick cant be punished by b12 at some ranges though and that is very frustrating.

 

[JSF]

Updated the OP, some MU's have changed since the patch.

 

[Tanno]

And Noob's slightly advantage, if you keep your distance. The disadvantage is that he got your zoning locked, but if he does the mistake to ever teleport, you punish that easily.

 

[Wigy]

Just to give my opinion on some matchups I've played a lot

Frost beats raijin raiden 6-4 I'd say. She straight up zones him out and d4 and b2 challenge his f4 really well which stops him approaching. His game is heavy on the staff slam which usually gives him some wiggle room as it's got pushback but frost can out range him

I need to play a good Jax but he HAS to come in is what I'd say. Jax ground pound doesnt really low profile the grenade at all, his grenade is too risky because of shield. Dash punch you can kinda just poke away with d4. I find it's a struggle when he's in definitely but it is for most characters, you can at least challenge the range on his f2 with d4 and b2.

I'll keep updating this when I get time.

 

[JSF]

Just to give my opinion on some matchups I've played a lot

Frost beats raijin raiden 6-4 I'd say. She straight up zones him out and d4 and b2 challenge his f4 really well which stops him approaching. His game is heavy on the staff slam which usually gives him some wiggle room as it's got pushback but frost can out range him

I need to play a good Jax but he HAS to come in is what I'd say. Jax ground pound doesnt really low profile the grenade at all, his grenade is too risky because of shield. Dash punch you can kinda just poke away with d4. I find it's a struggle when he's in definitely but it is for most characters, you can at least challenge the range on his f2 with d4 and b2.

I'll keep updating this when I get time.

ive never played a Raijin Raiden but i could see her winning that matchup pretty easily.
as for Jax i used to play a really good Jax player at a local, he cant win the zoning war but if you dont respect ground pound and missiles you will pay for it. he also has some of the best movement in the game so getting in is easy his wave dash is OD and once he gets in Frost has very limited options, before the patch she was dunzo but with a mid she has a chance but still gets bullied

 

[vegeta]

Granted I’m speaking from having fought these characters online but Jax and liu kang give me a frustrating amount of trouble. I’ll be able to resume traveling to tournament and attending locals but aside from EVO I was stuck with lab and online. They usually tend to get in on me or just hit buttons and never block. I assume some latency affects the play (KL I cant decline wireless players which are usually around a 100 ping) but beyond that I suspect I’d still have trouble especially up close. Not sure how to keep them off me. Gets mad annoying