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Frost-byte buff discussion

scarsunseen

RIP TYM 6/11/2021
General Frost issues:

Bad hitboxes on Ji1/Ji2. I whiff while next to them. If my opponent is already frozen, there should be no reason I whiff Ji1/Ji2.

Severely handicapped with Frost's air-to-air J1/J2. I'd estimate that I lose 80-95% of air-to-airs with this character. Frost is a ground character only unless if you're "Arctic Anarchy."

Inconsistent hitbox on S3. Not a huge issue because I know it varies on distance. Doesn't need to be addressed, but I'd just like it to be.


Specific Frost-byte issues:

Zero full-screen presence. You are free to zone against this variation. She can't do anything. This variation CAN'T play against Cetrion (especially), Shang Tsung, Jade (especially), Kano, Liu Kang, Skarlet (especially), Geras, Kabal, etc.. She has too many COMPLETELY unwinnable match-ups. She often can not play the game.

Head-bomb still has hurtbox issues. Example: On oki, I can often throw a bomb, hit them with 13 into the bomb, and they freeze. Sometimes they simply don't freeze because the hitbox is still too small. On hit, 13 slightly raises their feet off the ground (just like B1). Whiffing-on-hit issues.

Frost-byte has ZERO specials that can be amplified for a pop-up into a combo.

"Arctic Barrage" BF4 regular and amplified need improvement, especially the BF4-amp Krushing Blow. BF4-amp has zero usage other than a 4% damage increase at most. The requirements for the Krushing Blow are too strict. ("Triggers if it KOUNTERS or PUNISHES a LOW or DUCKING attack.") I've owned this game for nearly a year and I have successfully landed this Krushing Blow less than 10 times total. I'm supposed to land a low-crushing KB that has 25f start-up?
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General buff ideas:

Just adjust the hitboxes on Ji1/Ji2 so I don't whiff next to them (literally). Slightly change the hitbox also so she has better odds at air-to-airs.

Specific Frost-byte buff ideas:

As is, she has zero presence full-screen. Give her an amplified headbomb to she has a slight full-screen presence. It should have properties similar to Cyrax in MKX (freezes on hit rather than explodes for a pop-up). To be fair, put some sort of timer on it so she can't directly combo into amplified headbomb freeze, cuz she doesn't need that. I'm not trying to make her Sub-Zero. I would be totally fine if an amplified headbomb flat out didn't work at all in the corner also. I'm not trying to make her Cyber Sub-Zero either. She just needs some kind of full-screen presence that isn't BF3. It isn't good enough for this variation at all.

Buff BF4-amp so she can combo after it. This character struggles to output damage. SHE HAS ZERO AMPLIFIED POP-UP SPECIALS.

Buff BF4-amp KB requirements so it triggers while opponent is duck-blocking. The current requirements make this KB nearly impossible. I don't know if my suggestion is the most appropriate, but something needs to be done. BF4-amp-KB almost never happens.

Lemme know what ya think.
 

Wigy

There it is...
head bomb- give her a mb with a sizeable increase and range that does 40 more damage.

head bomb currently is so unreliable and restricted and can be very easily disrespected.

bf4- 21 frames and can now mb on block and is safe with a flawless block gap that can only be punished with an u2. KB is counterhit punish.

this seems extreme but currently thats one of the easiest punished moves in the game and is too slow to be used to reactively so is almost always an unsafe yolo.

after a launch bf4 will get roll out combo punished badly.

this would give her some space control neutral stuff, she'd be able to mix a little bit. but this would be off he 344 and 224 which both start as slow and stubby highs.

she would have the mb bomb for setups, regular ones for neutral and some mix and space control from bf4.

Also yes. Frost's j1 and j2 collectively are the worst in the game free. Like absolutely no contest. They're total garbage, please make her j1 not have to be done 1mm from the floor to connect on someone.

Go try land Frost's j1 j2 on low unblocked cage.
 
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scarsunseen

RIP TYM 6/11/2021
I can Ji1 against Cage but it's not easy. Ji2 is LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE. WHAT? Edit: She also can't Ji2 against ducking Cetrion.
 
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Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
The character has come a long way since having d1 be the best normal after d1 but it's just one of those variations that loses to variations that are too chad for them. If BF3 is a good projectile in the matchup, the variation seems to function. If not, you try to have fun strike/throwing with 20% combos. Head bomb is a good move, I feel like the buffs have been significant, it just doesn't compensate for losing discharge, the loss of head normals and not having damage compared to V2/V3. I like the BF4 suggestions, it's the easiest band-aid for this variation that needs just a bit more if only for fun's sake.
 
I know everything has been spoken, but still, can I make a suggestion too?
  1. S1: longer hitbox due to whiffing issue on most punishes
  2. Headbomb: low; amplifiable, explodes on contact; reduce dmg scaling to pre-patch state
  3. Arctic barrage: 21f startup, cancelable; KB reqs: opponent was duck blocking, not in blockstun
This would be perfect mixup variation with decent dmg. And unban coretrap dammit
 

BurdaA

Frost-Byte
I know everything has been spoken, but still, can I make a suggestion too?
  1. S1: longer hitbox due to whiffing issue on most punishes
  2. Headbomb: low; amplifiable, explodes on contact; reduce dmg scaling to pre-patch state
  3. Arctic barrage: 21f startup, cancelable; KB reqs: opponent was duck blocking, not in blockstun
This would be perfect mixup variation with decent dmg. And unban coretrap dammit
Is there some kind of HTB protection in MK11? If not that might be too nasty… I assume that’s why the bomb was never a low…

Don’t get me wrong, I’d eat that shit up. But it sounds dirty af
 
Is there some kind of HTB protection in MK11? If not that might be too nasty… I assume that’s why the bomb was never a low…

Don’t get me wrong, I’d eat that shit up. But it sounds dirty af
Giving everything for one char is dirty and frost is not one of them. Frost-byte is barely useful as it is
 

BurdaA

Frost-Byte
Giving everything for one char is dirty and frost is not one of them. Frost-byte is barely useful as it is
Not sure I follow your reasoning, but besides… why are we still talking tournament variations anyway? Is there still a mode that’s limited to them?

Bomb with microburst/auger is obviously much better
 

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
Is there some kind of HTB protection in MK11? If not that might be too nasty… I assume that’s why the bomb was never a low…

Don’t get me wrong, I’d eat that shit up. But it sounds dirty af
I believe you can do HTBs but if they land on the same frame, auto block is activated. They also made very few moved that can HTB

D'vorah with overhead spin/low beetle and fly by/low beetle are two that come to mind
 
The bomb is already good as it is. It already has a 50/50 mix where the opponent has to guess between blocking or jumping.

HeeyGeorge has the nastiest Frost. He knows how to set them up and land combos off a second explosion that will OTG into an extension.