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Forcing a Reaction
Yet Another Ice Puddle Thread


The bane of Sub-Zero and his Fans…… Ice Puddle is a move that people love to hate. I have been playing around with the Ice Puddle and have found a couple of cool situations that makes this move a little more useful - granted any use is better than none, which is what has happen to it since NRS removed his Ex Reset.

Blown Up” Whiffing an Ice Puddle due to long start up frames, it’s like a greeting card screaming please punish me when you open it. Everyone already knows that on reaction you can jump and do a full punish when Sub-Zero throws out an Ice Puddle. I like so many other Subzero players, we try to condition the player to respect Subzero offense with (B2) cancels to (2, 2) Freeze, cancel to throw, clone, fully charged (B2) and (D4) so on & so on just to sneak a ice puddle in. So here we are…. the other player must respect our Sub-Zeros by now because we have been doing all kinds of fancy cancels with (b2) and dancing around the screen etc….. Well the moment seemed right; we thrown out an Ice Puddle and guess what happens? “Blown the F*** Up on reaction would be correct. Errr F***ing Ice Puddle!

Training in the Lab with Sub-Zero for Final Round- I discovered a couple of things that I thought was a mistake at first. So I set the Training dummy to jump and I worked on imaginary situations in my head. Interestingly enough I found a setup that the player couldn’t jump out of the Ice Puddle on reaction. Wow that’s great an all but what if they do a wakeup attack or tech roll during the same setup? This led to my 2nd discovery; the Ice Puddle does stuff certain wakeup options.





Now we are getting somewhere for sure. Noob Saibot was my first victim….. Shadow upknee, charge and slide all stuffed by Ice Puddle but not the teleport smash. I like the idea of removing some of Noob’s beloved wakeup options and baiting for the teleport smash. In my heads the numbers are starting to shift in Sub-Zeros favor. I reworked my approach to the Noob match up and moved on to the next victim. In my testing Ice Puddle works against a majority of the casts wakeup options but blown up by others. I won’t list all of the whos and whats just yet because discovery is ½ the fun.


But let’s look at Scorpion because his wakeup moves take down and teleport punch both beat the Ice Puddle setup or do they? Forcing a reaction is really what the ice puddle setup is doing. If the player decides to jump or block they are trapped in the puddle reset. Will a scorpion player risk a naked teleport with the potential of a full punish? He might but odds are a skilled scorpion will use the Take down which has the least amount of risk or EX Teleport.

Let’s tackle both options without considering tech roll of the above examples at once. Using the same setup minus the Ice Puddle- instead we (B2) cancel semi dash back to (D3 option select EX-Slide) then if the Ex slide does not come out we held up forward jump punch to (2, 2). IF we guessed right and timed everything right we just beat either both versions of the Take down or started a full punish to an EX teleport on Scorpion. Why would I (B2) cancel off the same Ice Puddle setup........ I will make an example video showing how and why it works at some point maybe but a little secret a (B2 Fully Charged) off of the same setup stuff certain wake up attacks and forces a reaction as well. A mini Vortex inside a Setup etc..

Now people are going to ask/say what about the Tech Roll? That’s a great question but let me answer a question with a question- What about EX-Ice Puddle from the same setup? It gets even more convoluted when thinking of corners and tech rolls ;) Enough talk about this and possible Vortex options at the moment- whats the setup?


End any combo with a proper (D3) to Ice Puddle. The timing is strict but very possible with practice. Make sure to hit the (D3) right before the player hits the ground. When I was learning the timing I would hold down the 3 and negative edge the Ice Puddle motion while letting off of the 3 button. Don’t take my word for it…. Get out there and practice the timing and create your own flow and style with Sub-Zero. I can make a vortex video of Sub-Zero pressure off of the (D3) setup to either Ice puddle or a Full charged (B2) or a canceled (B2) to (2, 2 or 2, 1) or clone or (D4) pressure etc…… but whats fun is that" monkey see monkey do" ?

This is not a be all fix all for Sub-Zero with a 100% success rate. There will always be a risk/reward factor to anything not broken but it is another needed option to force a reaction for Sub-Zero. This is just my way of trying to take Sub-Zero to the next stage of development while leveling up a few on the way.

Thanks for your time,
~StaticJack
 

Roko1985

Put down the controller and run!
Forcing a Reaction
Yet Another Ice Puddle Thread



The bane of Sub-Zero and his Fans…… Ice Puddle is a move that people love to hate. I have been playing around with the Ice Puddle and have found a couple of cool situations that makes this move a little more useful - granted any use is better than none, which is what has happen to it since NRS removed his Ex Reset.

Blown Up” Whiffing an Ice Puddle due to long start up frames, it’s like a greeting card screaming please punish me when you open it. Everyone already knows that on reaction you can jump and do a full punish when Sub-Zero throws out an Ice Puddle. I like so many other Subzero players, we try to condition the player to respect Subzero offense with (B2) cancels to (2, 2) Freeze, cancel to throw, clone, fully charged (B2) and (D4) so on & so on just to sneak a ice puddle in. So here we are…. the other player must respect our Sub-Zeros by now because we have been doing all kinds of fancy cancels with (b2) and dancing around the screen etc….. Well the moment seemed right; we thrown out an Ice Puddle and guess what happens? “Blown the F*** Up on reaction would be correct. Errr F***ing Ice Puddle!

Training in the Lab with Sub-Zero for Final Round- I discovered a couple of things that I thought was a mistake at first. So I set the Training dummy to jump and I worked on imaginary situations in my head. Interestingly enough I found a setup that the player couldn’t jump out of the Ice Puddle on reaction. Wow that’s great an all but what if they do a wakeup attack or tech roll during the same setup? This led to my 2nd discovery; the Ice Puddle does stuff certain wakeup options.



\​


Now we are getting somewhere for sure. Noob Saibot was my first victim….. Shadow upknee, charge and slide all stuffed by Ice Puddle but not the teleport smash. I like the idea of removing some of Noob’s beloved wakeup options and baiting for the teleport smash. In my heads the numbers are starting to shift in Sub-Zeros favor. I reworked my approach to the Noob match up and moved on to the next victim. In my testing Ice Puddle works against a majority of the casts wakeup options but blown up by others. I won’t list all of the whos and whats just yet because discovery is ½ the fun.


But let’s look at Scorpion because his wakeup moves take down and teleport punch both beat the Ice Puddle setup or do they? Forcing a reaction is really what the ice puddle setup is doing. If the player decides to jump or block they are trapped in the puddle reset. Will a scorpion player risk a naked teleport with the potential of a full punish? He might but odds are a skilled scorpion will use the Take down which has the least amount of risk or EX Teleport.

Let’s tackle both options without considering tech roll of the above examples at once. Using the same setup minus the Ice Puddle- instead we (B2) cancel semi dash back to (D4 option select EX-Slide) then if the Ex slide does not come out we held up forward jump punch to (2, 2). IF we guessed right and timed everything right we just beat either both versions of the Take down or started a full punish to an EX teleport on Scorpion. Why would I (B2) cancel off the same Ice Puddle setup........ I will make an example video showing how and why it works at some point maybe but a little secret a (B2 Fully Charged) off of the same setup stuff certain wake up attacks and forces a reaction as well. A mini Vortex inside a Setup etc..

Now people are going to ask/say what about the Tech Roll? That’s a great question but let me answer a question with a question- What about EX-Ice Puddle from the same setup? It gets even more convoluted when thinking of corners and tech rolls ;) Enough talk about this and possible Vortex options at the moment- whats the setup?

End any combo with a proper (D3) to Ice Puddle. The timing is strict but very possible with practice. Make sure to hit the (D3) right before the player hits the ground. When I was learning the timing I would hold down the 3 and negative edge the Ice Puddle motion while letting off of the 3 button. Don’t take my word for it…. Get out there and practice the timing and create your own flow and style with Sub-Zero. I can make a vortex video of Sub-Zero pressure off of the (D3) setup to either Ice puddle or a Full charged (B2) or a canceled (B2) to (2, 2 or 2, 1) or clone or (D4) pressure etc…… but whats fun is that" monkey see monkey do" ?

This is not a be all fix all for Sub-Zero with a 100% success rate. There will always be a risk/reward factor to anything not broken but it is another needed option to force a reaction for Sub-Zero. This is just my way of trying to take Sub-Zero to the next stage of development while leveling up a few on the way.

Thanks for your time,
~StaticJack
Interesting! I would love to see some video........I will hit the lab anyway. Can you give an example for combo that ends with D3?
 

Truth

Noob
I think you're forgetting the most important option the crossover jip. You would need to test this against a human opponent because the CPU will never jump on wakeup.
 

CptXecution

Brain Dead Bro
Premium Supporter
I'm sorry but does anyone read these forums? I've been using this set up for months now, there is no ACTUAL set up for Ice puddle just prayers and wishes. This is like the 4th thread I've seen with this in it.
 
I think you're forgetting the most important option the crossover jip. You would need to test this against a human opponent because the CPU will never jump on wakeup.
Truth Of Course so but do take my work for it :) And yes the CPU will jump on wake up but you have to let let it understand and give the AI a moment to receive the command. Example set AI to jump the freeze the AI wait for it to receive the command to jump then do a (2,1) proper (D3) Ice Puddle :) The trick is give the AI a buffer time to receive the command which a freeze achieves.

I'm sorry but does anyone read these forums? I've been using this set up for months now, there is no ACTUAL set up for Ice puddle just prayers and wishes. This is like the 4th thread I've seen with this in it.
No disrespect but did you even read the post or did you respond after you read the line Yet Another Ice Puddle because you might of missed the header Forcing a Reaction.
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
I read it an understand your motive... but still. If you ice puddle someone on a teachable knockdown... he's going to tech roll jump in and BLOW YOU UP!!!! It isn't like a move that is quick and makes you react. Ice Puddle is slow... and has a slow recovery. You simply just react to the animation.
Once you commit to using the ice puddle you have to use it. There is won't be a SINGLE person that respects this move at any point... and they don't have to. You can't MAKE someone react how you want by basing your game around this move. You'll die. Very quickly.
I'm also going to point out... that while ice puddle DOES help against some wakeup attacks... it isn't anything that ice ball can't handle.
You are very much welcome to using the ice puddle... but anyone who's played this game up to an intermediate level will simply blow you up for using the move. Why risk taking damage and GIVING UP damage to use a setup that has a 30% success rate (made up stat). That is just silly.
 

CptXecution

Brain Dead Bro
Premium Supporter
No disrespect but did you even read the post or did you respond after you read the line Yet Another Ice Puddle because you might of missed the header Forcing a Reaction.
Well no disrespect on my end then, the only "Forced Reaction" you're going to get is a tech roll into a jip into a full combo. You're banking on your opponent doing a wake up attack every time you knock them down and quite frankly at high level...wake up attacks are slim to none.
 

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
It's too stance dependent, ice puddle sticks out like a sore thumb when Sub's body is facing the screen and it's only gonna make it all the more obvious if you to switch stance to camouflage his hands before proceeding to the reset attempt.. I appreciate the effort by all means Static, but at this point we can only hope UMK3 masked Sub comes to the console versions and gives him the UMK3 start-up frames, and actually shoots a friggin puddle, not a clusterfuck of aborted syrup from a Slush Puppie machine. :p #Kappa

I'm also going to point out... that while ice puddle DOES help against some wakeup attacks... it isn't anything that ice ball can't handle.
/thread.
 

GamerBlake90

Catch me if you can!
Premium Supporter
The video's been blocked due to copyright grounds. Too bad...I wanted to check it out. :(

EDIT: Never mind, I can see it now.
 
For got to mention that I added another video for all the non believers :) Not sure what the timing is as far as frames to hit the sweet spot but it is possible for sure

 
The video's been blocked due to copyright grounds. Too bad...I wanted to check it out. :(

EDIT: Never mind, I can see it now.
Sry about that I added a 2nd video showing the Anti Cross over punch with the opponent always jumping forward etc..... I hope that this opens a few doors for Sub but his bad match ups are very bad etc....
 

CptXecution

Brain Dead Bro
Premium Supporter
Sry about that I added a 2nd video showing the Anti Cross over punch with the opponent always jumping forward etc..... I am hope that this opens a few doors for Sub but his bad match ups are very bad etc....
I'm going to keep this short because you're not worth my time and you think you're so smart in your video....
1. The moment I see your d3 I'm going to utilize my amazing invincible frames given to me in MK and you will get BLOWN UP with a wake up attack
2. We never said JUMP off the ground because you can't just jump off the ground, we said TECH ROLL into a jip, the tech roll avoids the ice puddle and will get BLOWN UP
3. There is NO set up for ice puddle, if there was a set up for ice puddle then Sub would be UNBEATABLE because you'd never be able to get off the ground.

This should only used on THE rare occasion and NOT end it with the useless d3 which gives away your set up.


.....give it up


I'm closing this thread when I get home for the simple fact that there's already tons of posts about this "set up" there's nothing new here.
 
I'm going to keep this short because you're not worth my time and you think you're so smart in your video....
1. The moment I see your d3 I'm going to utilize my amazing invincible frames given to me in MK and you will get BLOWN UP with a wake up attack
2. We never said JUMP off the ground because you can't just jump off the ground, we said TECH ROLL into a jip, the tech roll avoids the ice puddle and will get BLOWN UP
3. There is NO set up for ice puddle, if there was a set up for ice puddle then Sub would be UNBEATABLE because you'd never be able to get off the ground.

This should only used on THE rare occasion and NOT end it with the useless d3 which gives away your set up.


.....give it up


I'm closing this thread when I get home for the simple fact that there's already tons of posts about this "set up" there's nothing new here.
I give up...... for sure I do. Abuse of power is nothing to joke about. All I'm showing is an option to the freeze but since you deem it worthless it must be so. Please forgive my attempt to do something that might give Sub another option.
 

Seapeople

This one's for you
I give up...... for sure I do. Abuse of power is nothing to joke about. All I'm showing is an option to the freeze but since you deem it worthless it must be so. Please forgive my attempt to do something that might give Sub another option.
Don't worry about it man. It's just that this is a common topic that has been discussed a lot on the Sub forums.

Here's the biggest thing you have to ask yourself about the ice puddle: Where is the mix up? The opponent can do a wakeup as soon as they see the ice puddle begin. You're not creating a 50/50, but you're forcing a reaction that will get you destroyed 100% of the time against anyone who understands the gimmick. The same can be said for using b2 after a knockdown.
 

STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
Premium Supporter
It's useful for one time against an opponent. haha

I just did it to WoundCowboy last night and he said, "ohhh, what was that?!" when it caught him. Yeah, it didn't work again. But it did once.
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
*sigh* As soon as that animation starts... blowed up
so yeah.. uh oh is right. By the way... it doesn't' take a rocket scientist to see you STOP a guaranteed combo... to know something is up. Hell... even a novice will panic wakeup attack!!! Why didn't you put tech roll on? Tech roll JiP... full combo.... uh oh!!!

Yes... you are right sir. You are forcing a reaction... the reaction that BLOWS YOU THE HELL UP!!!