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For the Lin Kuei! Sub-Zero General Discussion

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
Man, Sub Zero's damage output is noticeable lower now.
Some of my 1 bar combos deal less damage than my meterless ones from before the patch.

Was there a reason for him to get nerfed? Did anyone find a hidden buff perhaps?
Can you go in more detail about your combos?
 

Ralenzo

Noob
2,2,3 > bf+3 (MB) used to deal 190% (230%), now it does 150% (180%).

And all combos including his b or f+3 has gotten quite worse as well.
f+3 > J2 > 1 > b+2,3,3 used to deal 340%, now it does 270%
 

JBeezYBabY

Mr. Righteous
2,2,3 > bf+3 (MB) used to deal 190% (230%), now it does 150% (180%).

And all combos including his b or f+3 has gotten quite worse as well.
f+3 > J2 > 1 > b+2,3,3 used to deal 340%, now it does 270%
WOW! I KNEW SOMETHING WAS OFF! So this whole time putting in work in these combos on my opponents it was because of the scaling of the changed based stats. So ultimately, Sub got nerfed BAD! Fuck....
 
Another character nerfed to trash status needlesly. Fuck this game.... Sub Zero is not even a full rushdown character neither he has too much favorable matchups... Screw You NRS... I let my time and blood to create the ultimate Sub Zero combo compilation.... and now all my efforts are in vain.:mad:

I repeat... Sub Zero wasn't even mid tier at release...And They killed Him like They did with Cryomancer in MKXL. Meanwhile... Blue Beetle... A character that is one of the more versatile characters in the game gets a damage buff:mad:(Blue Beetle is Supergirl 2.0). Screw this Zoning loving game... No actual variety is allowed to live.:coffee:
 
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JBeezYBabY

Mr. Righteous
Another character nerfed to trash status needlesly. Fuck this game.... Sub Zero is not even a full rushdown character neither he has too much favorable matchups... Screw You NRS... I let my time and blood to create the ultimate Sub Zero combo compilation.... and now all my efforts are in vain.:mad:

I repeat... Sub Zero wasn't even mid tier at release...And They killed Him like They did with Cryomancer in MKXL. Meanwhile... Blue Beetle... A character that is one of the more versatile characters in the game gets a damage buff:mad:(Blue Beetle is Supergirl 2.0). Screw this Zoning loving game... No actual variety is allowed to live.:coffee:
*sigh* I do enjoy this character a bunch, but its sad to say that I will prob seek another character for my roster.
 

JBeezYBabY

Mr. Righteous
2,2,3 > bf+3 (MB) used to deal 190% (230%), now it does 150% (180%).

And all combos including his b or f+3 has gotten quite worse as well.
f+3 > J2 > 1 > b+2,3,3 used to deal 340%, now it does 270%
Is there any way you can show footage as proof ?Question mark?
 

exisTenz

Noob
They changed his Strength stat from 1700 to 1600 and Ability stat from 1600 to 1650. That means the damage on his normals and combo strings was decreased and the damage on special moves and trait was slightly increased. As a result he lost around 20 damage points across his bnbs. Not too significant but totally unnecessary, his damage was good but it's not like Sub has many ways to open you up.
 

JBeezYBabY

Mr. Righteous
100 points is a big difference. I don't get why NRS did this....so unnecessary. Might as well NEVER put any damn MK characters in the game. But hey....whateva....
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
Ok I've checked most of my combos, only the corner combos were the ones that got hurt as I don't have any corner combo that deals over 400 points of damage. The mid-screen combos got nerfed as well but not that much, they still deal very good damage. In fact my BNB Supermove combo of B23 into Supermove actually now deals MORE damage. It used to do 498, now it does 505. So if you keep your combos short, the damage nerf is not only small, but you actually can get MORE damage.

Another character nerfed to trash status needlesly. Fuck this game.... Sub Zero is not even a full rushdown character neither he has too much favorable matchups... Screw You NRS... I let my time and blood to create the ultimate Sub Zero combo compilation.... and now all my efforts are in vain.:mad:

I repeat... Sub Zero wasn't even mid tier at release...And They killed Him like They did with Cryomancer in MKXL. Meanwhile... Blue Beetle... A character that is one of the more versatile characters in the game gets a damage buff:mad:(Blue Beetle is Supergirl 2.0). Screw this Zoning loving game... No actual variety is allowed to live.:coffee:
I'm sorry but you don't know what you're talking about, Sub-Zero's damage was very good, one of the better damage outputs in the game, and he already was a mid-tier AT WORST (meaning he was a good character, and probably still is) and he covered a good amount of match-ups (and that's probably the case for that as well still). Also Cryo Sub in MKX got buffed in the last patch, have you even followed MKX? And what the fuck the Zoning has anything to do with this?

100 points is a big difference. I don't get why NRS did this....so unnecessary. Might as well NEVER put any damn MK characters in the game. But hey....whateva....
What putting MK chars in IJ2 has to do with any of this? Also it's not that much of a difference.

You guys need to calm down, the patch only came, it's not just Sub himself but the rest of the roster as well. More time is needed. Like I said, one of my combos got buffed rather then nerfed.

They changed his Strength stat from 1700 to 1600 and Ability stat from 1600 to 1650. That means the damage on his normals and combo strings was decreased and the damage on special moves and trait was slightly increased. As a result he lost around 20 damage points across his bnbs. Not too significant but totally unnecessary, his damage was good but it's not like Sub has many ways to open you up.
That's because he isn't about opening people up, his offense comes from pressure, not mixups.
 
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Ralenzo

Noob
Is there any way you can show footage as proof ?Question mark?
No, I don't have access to Sub Zero from before the patch, but I can compare the damage of his known combos with its current damage tho.

Combos below was taken from the Sub Zero combo thread, which was said to be done on Superman with competitive mode on.

J2, f22xxexIB, b3, j3, slight walk, 33xxPP. Deals 41% dmg -> now 39%

J3 (cross-up), 33xxexPP, b3, j3, f22xxPP. Deals 45,5% dmg -> now 43%

J2, b23xxexIB, b3, j3, slight walk, 33xxPP. Deals 42% dmg. -> now 39%

Seems like Sub's damage is indeed nerfed with only 20%-30%.
I don't remember what character I used as my training dummy before the patch, but it was probably someone with a lot less defense, which is why the damage difference seemed a lot bigger than it actually was.
 

JBeezYBabY

Mr. Righteous
No, I don't have access to Sub Zero from before the patch, but I can compare the damage of his known combos with its current damage tho.

Combos below was taken from the Sub Zero combo thread, which was said to be done on Superman with competitive mode on.

J2, f22xxexIB, b3, j3, slight walk, 33xxPP. Deals 41% dmg -> now 39%

J3 (cross-up), 33xxexPP, b3, j3, f22xxPP. Deals 45,5% dmg -> now 43%

J2, b23xxexIB, b3, j3, slight walk, 33xxPP. Deals 42% dmg. -> now 39%

Seems like Sub's damage is indeed nerfed with only 20%-30%.
I don't remember what character I used as my training dummy before the patch, but it was probably someone with a lot less defense, which is why the damage difference seemed a lot bigger than it actually was.
I believe I can since i practically record everything. Had some nice sets against a Darkseid in competitive Versus. So what I can do is go into practice mode against a Darkseid to test the damage. Yeah, the overall combo damage wont be EXACT because....hes Darkseid, but at LEAST we can see the percentage scaling from then to now. I will try my best to do this :)
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
I believe I can since i practically record everything. Had some nice sets against a Darkseid in competitive Versus. So what I can do is go into practice mode against a Darkseid to test the damage. Yeah, the overall combo damage wont be EXACT because....hes Darkseid, but at LEAST we can see the percentage scaling from then to now. I will try my best to do this :)
I usually use Captain Cold as my dummy, and as far as I know his stats are standard, which i suppose indicates that Sub's damage has indeed nerfed by a small degree only.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
Here are all of the Teleport Specials in IJ2 that you can bait with Sub-Zero's Ice Klone by dashing forward at the moment of the Teleport, causing the opponent to go straight into the Klone as forward dash turns into a backdash, and go for a full combo punish off of the Klone. I didn't include the 3 versions of the Teleport from Raiden/Black Lightning that requires their Trait as they can go for the in place ofr far versions which they can use to ruin this Setup, so as long as their High Voltage Trait is active, it's not recommended to go for this Setup. Darkseid's Air Boom Tube is also not recommended to use against as Darkseid can go for Doom Stomp and once again ruin the Setup, so it's best to avoid that. All of the other Teleports from Supergirl/Power Girl, Black Manta and Scarecrow, in addition to Raiden/Black Lightning and Darkseid, can be baited, so use this Setup wisely and ruin their Teleports.

Enjoy! :)

 
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Dankster Morgan

she don’t call me daddy she call me Grandmaster
So the patch notes say you can tech roll after B233, that kinda sucks. What ender are you using for HKD now?
 

SunsetBlvd

Proven Nappa GOD, 100% VERIFIED Best Nappa NA
So the patch notes say you can tech roll after B233, that kinda sucks. What ender are you using for HKD now?
i never touched b11d3 before but it seems to be hkd. using as basic bnb ender off 111 xx mb ice ball i was getting 374 on supes with it vs. 380-something with b233. ai wasnt rolling so idk but it seemed consistent.

before this i was using b3, j2, j2, b233 or something as a basic bnb off freeze mid screen entirely for corner carry + very usable hkd after, so i'm assuming they didn't want him getting both now. i mean we can all agree b233 as an hkd ender made sub insanely broken and unbeatable and his combos way too easy and consistent and it desperately needed to be nerfed for the future of this game obviously.
 

Dankster Morgan

she don’t call me daddy she call me Grandmaster
I’m just trying to decide on a corner ender now, B233 is still useful for carry I guess but I don’t want them rolling off a knockdown in the corner. B233 midscreen still gives us some corner carry and a re-clone
 

Dankster Morgan

she don’t call me daddy she call me Grandmaster
I use B11D3 as my corner ender now, what’re you guys using? Midscreen I’m just using polar puncture and B233 is still very good for corner carry even if they can tech roll now :rolleyes: