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For the Lin Kuei! Sub-Zero General Discussion

Lokheit

Noob
Sub-Zero officially released! Discuss everything about the Grand Master here fellow Lin Kuei!!


Discord:

https://discord.gg/RFX5agt


Official Site Bio:

SUB-ZERO

“I SEEK A WORTHY KOMBATANT.”

Sub-Zero is a lethal cryomancer and leader of the reformed Lin Kuei clan. When Sub-Zero was younger, the Lin Kuei were corrupted and destroyed from within, staining their honor. Now serving as Grandmaster, Sub-Zero vows to redeem that honor, pledging to defend the realm from threats near, far, and beyond. In the intergalactic menace Brainiac, Sub-Zero sees a threat to all worlds, and perhaps his greatest opportunity for redemption yet.


Gameplay Trailer:

 
I played him for a couple hours yesterday, I think hes great. Really like the feel of his gameplay, it actually reminded me a lot of Green Arrow's moveset. I do think its a bit difficult to combo cancel into his command grab, but it can be done. But I love his b11d3. It gets people after a knockdown nearly every time. It kinda sucks that he cant throw the air klones(Must be a gear ability) but they are pretty useful nonetheless. Definitely has a lot of potential, even if he has almost no juggle moves.
 
So, why his Polar Puncture is damn duckable? I mean I think I know the reason but don't like it.

P.S. This will be the main thread? 'Cause others have disappered
 

Lokheit

Noob
Just noticed that his slide low profiling goes even further than I thought, not only it goes under Deadshot low bullets, it can trade with some Supermoves like Atrocitus, hit the armor and not get hit.
 
he takes some getting used to. time to lab him for a few hours later and this weekend. I need someone that will make me put Canary down for a moment.
 
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Cobainevermind87

Mid-match beer sipper
I played him for a couple hours yesterday, I think hes great. Really like the feel of his gameplay, it actually reminded me a lot of Green Arrow's moveset. I do think its a bit difficult to combo cancel into his command grab, but it can be done. But I love his b11d3. It gets people after a knockdown nearly every time. It kinda sucks that he cant throw the air klones(Must be a gear ability) but they are pretty useful nonetheless. Definitely has a lot of potential, even if he has almost no juggle moves.
Hehe you can throw them by pressing the trait button again. Or shatter them by doing db1.

Edit: misread. Missed the "air" in your post. I know you can still shatter them though, the shrapnel doesn't travel as far as the toss would have, but it's something.
 
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Emaxxy

Noob
I like him quite a bit. I'm still trying to find a main, and he's now on the list of possible mains along with Canary, Catwoman, and Cheetah. I'll try him out some more later today.
 
So people know, if you time it right you can do bf3 off of 223. Not sure if you can do this with a klone behind you but I wouldnt be surprised. Youd have to be real fast though.
 

HeroesNZ

Baconlord's Billionaire Sugar Daddy
Honest first impressions, this character is buns. Plus frames but absolutely no way to enforce them, a clone with only half a hitbox which is pretty punishable on block for a lot of the cast and a slow back walkspeed means playing footsies is a struggle. He's Johnny-no-mixups and no safety/worthwhile pressure to make up for it.

It'd be fine if he had the corner carry to take them to jail but they decided to make his slide side switch instead.

He needs his clone to be fixed, I'm getting tired of getting poked from behind the clone and losing it.
 

Vigilante24

Beware my power, Red Lantern's Light
Ive noticed everyone ends mid screen combos in command grab for max damage. I end my combos with 112 for the corner carry. Allows for a couple free dashes to close the distance. Is this not considered viable or something? Am I bad?
 
It has to be said, facing day 1 Sub Zero online was less hassle than any other Day 1 DLC matches where matchup inexperience usually reigns supreme. Almost every character seems to have multiple effective answers to his clone, and the rest of his gameplan seems far too telegraphed.

Obviously this could be proven massively wrong months down the line, but... it really doesn't seem like those folks who feared him causing massively polarising matchups again have much to worry about anymore...
 

SOLEdier

IHideBehindIceClones
Definitely not MKX Sub Zero. I can see him getting a lot of the same trouble Scarecrow goes though. I think Scarecrow is a better character than Sub Zero for first impressions. Sub has better/easier damage overall, but This "draw your opponent to you" type of character that 16 bit said isn't really going to work against Blue Beetles, Batmans, Dr. Fates, etc etc.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Royal Contributor
Sub has better/easier damage overall, but This "draw your opponent to you" type of character that 16 bit said isn't really going to work against Blue Beetles, Batmans, Dr. Fates, etc etc.
In modern NRS fighting games, Sub Zero has always had to approach the dominant zoning characters, but in this game he can slide under a plethora of projectiles, including mid-hitting ones such as Cyborg's Nova Blaster and Dr. Fate's Amon Ra Blast and orb. He can even slide under Deadshot's Assault Rifle. The slide has a fairly quick whiff recovery too. I do not see him struggling too much with zoning and run away characters. At least not initially.
 
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Yeah I've been straight BULLYING him with Robin on ranked matches. He get beat in the neutral bad. Plus Robin's sword can poke him through the klone for free
 
I could be wrong (or blinded by hope), but I think the character has potential to be legit. It's abundantly clear that they were scared of him dominating too hard with clone, so they made some things glaringly weaker than necessary, but they still left him with some good stuff.

First and foremost, he hits like a grown man. He's no Bladam, but his damage is enough that you have to worry about him catching you. Second, he has solid (if not godlike) reset potential between the mb command grab, jumpins off the b11d3 string, and clever clone positioning.

His mixups are probably his weakest point (besides the absurd clone hitbox, anyway). They gave him basically nothing to encourage your opponent to block high, which sucks. I will never understand why NRS thinks it's just brilliant to put an overhead at the end of a string that starts high. Why even include such a move? But whatever. The big thing is that because of the clone hitbox and lack of overheads, it's really hard for him to play anything like his MKX incarnation, and that means we gotta rethink the character.

Where he shines, I think, is in his whiff punishing, zoning, and corner push. None of these is stellar by themselves, but together they work well. He has multiple strings that advance for excellent whiff punishing. Unfortunately, many of them start high (blah), but that just means using them more like Bladam's f12 string than as mixup potential.

Further, between fast-recharging clone, mb double clone, clone toss, ice ball (that actually hurts), mb iceball eating projectiles, and low-profiling slide, he can actually present a substantial zoning threat. Not in the annoying spam-from-max-range way most zoners in this game do (thank god), but in the traditional sense of zone control through projectiles. If you can get a clone out safely (sometimes tough, I know), people really want to back the hell away from it, which is great, since you can back them toward the corner where Sub's mixups become more legit.

Finally, one thing I'm really trying to flesh out is how getting a clone on screen seems to open up a semi-legit high-low 50/50 for him. If you can get the clone out, F3 and slide become legit full-combo threats against a lot of the cast. F3 is a bit too slow for it to be super scary, so I'm currently playing with options to increase the threat. If anyone has ideas, they're most welcome.

All in all, I don't think Subby is a dead fish, but he definitely has to be played intelligently.
 

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
Yeah, I don't think he feels terribly powerful right now, but maybe that will change. I feel like if we had a legit reason to make people stand up though..

Oh well. If wished were fishes we'd all have high mercury levels in our blood.
 
I kept getting hit by GA's arrows when trying to slide, lol. I couldn't even get in close bc once I was hit with fire arrow, I was pushed back damn near half the screen. I was lol'ing. I really want to pick up another character bc as Ive already stated, I ONLY main Canary and I have to wait until after EVO for the balance changes to see who I'm going to pick up next...I was hoping it would be Sub.

I guess I should be glad I didn't play MKX at all or at least MKX Sub Zero, bc I probably would be pissed. I still have hope tho, lol
 
I dunno how anybody slider under Deadshot's rifle and Green Arrows low projectile it's impossible. Tried it in training and they were beating me out of it. Mb problem with timing but I think you just can't evade them