Flawless Blockable Strings Need To Be Reassessed

[Chernyy Volk]

Here I am bringing more dreaded negativity, but someone has to hold NRS accountable for an untested game that seems to have no actual design direction.

Flawless blockable strings were one of the primary dynamics introduced by MK11, and it makes perfect sense and is obviously a cool balancing measure. It'd facilitate resource management and decision making. In theory.

My premise is this, there are too many strings in the game that are either interruptible into full combos without engaging with the flawless blocking element at all and there are strings that have flawless block gaps when they don't even offer a perceived benefit for being gotten away with in the first place. Examples of these strings

Scorpion's 212: Interruptible into full combos if people have labbed the conversions

Nightwolf's B132: -3, huge button interruptible gap AND flawless blockable. A string with no purpose or design.

Raiden's B14: -14 AND flawless blockable. A useless string with no purpose or design that is a trap for Raiden players attempting to use it at all.

Shang's B3U4: Interruptible into 30% when people have labbed the converts. Flawless blockable, but it's OS-able against the B3D4 mixup so there's no need to engage with the defensive depth

Kotal's B223: 17F high that is interruptible, AND flawless blockable, AND -5 on block if you somehow get away with it with the stagger of B22 being -16. Lack of design, lack of intent, not worth using.

Fujin's 232+4: Fully duckable on reaction AND flawless blockable to plug a 9% mixup that is -17 on block. Not tested, lack of design direction, lack of intent, not worth using.

Shao's F34: -12, OS defendable against shoulder/spear if timed properly. I'm more arguing that Shao is just unreasonably punished for trying to use his mid here.

Liu's F43U3: Interruptible and flawless blockable without spending resources into a button punish. Once again, the intended dynamic of using resources to prevent this situation and thus encouraging resource management is just entirely removed here.

I feel like that not only should flawless blocking in general not alter frame data, every instance in which you can bypass the flawless block needs to be removed and strings without a on block benefit need to receive one. How is this not an untested and unfinished product? Forcing the opponent to commit to the resources would force a genuine resource management element into the game, which a lot of us feel like this game already lacks.

Make every flawless blockable string have a true 3F gap. No alternative options. Make every string that doesn't have an on block benefit of some sort (pushback or plus frames) also have a benefit. I just want the game that was sold to me and promised to me.

 

[Error404]

I rarely agree with you , but this is one of those instances. The effects and relevance of flawless blocking seem to be completely random across the cast. As do the properties of flawless block attacks.

 

[Chernyy Volk]

Video version has been added to the OP.

 

[SonBearku]

This is a great point. Absolutely agree.

 

[NoCharge]

The biggest wtf is Shao's f34. -12 on block, no mix-ups, can't cancel if flawless blocked and a gap between f3 and 4. Why? It should either be safe or remove the gap in f34.

 

[Blewdew]

This is something I can actually agree to especially because of Shao Kahn. It‘s such a bad design choice, why add the mixup with the throw/special cancel to it, if flawless block just negates any follow up anyway and leaves Shao Kahn at -12 without spending any meter and he‘s not the only character that suffers from this. Making gaps And fb reactions consistent across the cast definitely would help some characters.

 

[Demon_0]

Agreed. This makes no sense. Along with tons of hitbox issues that are STILL present from day 1.

 

[Eddy Wang]

I lost hope for this game.
Just add skarlet any skarlet string in this list

 

[spidey300]

I would say that any string that has to be flawless blocked if you want a punish should be made extremely negative and punishable without spending resources. Like in 3rd strike any single hit or last hit of a multi hitting action would be immediately punishable

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

Great job. You should make all your assessments this way for the rest of forever.

"Just want the game that was sold to me and promised to me" is the truest statement ever. I have like half a dozen pals I promised to run sets with who I can't even give a decent fight because of how uninspiring stuff like this is.

I also still can't get over that status update gif I saw the other day of Jacqui catching the behind the back Brutality from Sindel from far away enough to be safely socially distanced.

But hey, the casuals love this busted inconsistency, so it'll likely never change.

 

[Cobainevermind87]

I also still can't get over that status update gif I saw the other day of Jacqui catching the behind the back Brutality from Sindel from far away enough to be safely socially distanced.

That made me nauseous. They tried to cut it in the beginning, but you could see the recovery frames of Sindel's d2 animation. So the sequence was literally half screen d2 for 14%, errant scream that was properly read and going to be punished, it somehow hits behind and KBs, another d2 into brute.

D2----->mistake----->D2 = Win + Brute in MK11.

 

[Marinjuana]

I mean I don't know if it really matters in some of these cases. I don't think they intentionally leave a large enough gap to interrupt, but only expect you flawless block. Like you used Liu's F43U3 which is punishable without meter as an example of a flaw, based off the idea that you are supposed/would be better to use resources to counter it. I think that's an issue with your perception of design intentions, rather than an issue with the design. That string is great, it has a KB, it used to have a faster startup, maybe NRS just didn't want you to have to use meter to counter it? Like if you read it and FB it, you get the punish, but you going for that opens other stuff for Liu. Adding some arbitrary meter requirements to defending against Liu doesn't seem like a fun change. And I think some of these strings aren't meant to be safe and the FB is another option or a layer to the punish meta.

Scorpion's 212 probably fits your critique the best, it doesn't seem very useful on block. That said, it does have a KB and it's just one of those strings that helps teach the game. People might not love that, but that one gimmicky string that Scorpion had in MKX that was low-mid-overhead? That helped teach the game mechanics, 212 has plus frames, staggers, a punishable gap, etc. Same idea IMO, so I can see why it is the way it is.

I definitely don't think putting meter requirements on flawless block punishes that don't have it is a good idea. It feels great to jab punish Liu's F43U3.

 

[Chernyy Volk]

I mean I don't know if it really matters in some of these cases. I don't think they intentionally leave a large enough gap to interrupt, but only expect you flawless block. Like you used Liu's F43U3 which is punishable without meter as an example of a flaw, based off the idea that you are supposed/would be better to use resources to counter it. I think that's an issue with your perception of design intentions, rather than an issue with the design. That string is great, it has a KB, it used to have a faster startup, maybe NRS just didn't want you to have to use meter to counter it? Like if you read it and FB it, you get the punish, but you going for that opens other stuff for Liu. Adding some arbitrary meter requirements to defending against Liu doesn't seem like a fun change. And I think some of these strings aren't meant to be safe and the FB is another option or a layer to the punish meta.

Scorpion's 212 probably fits your critique the best, it doesn't seem very useful on block. That said, it does have a KB and it's just one of those strings that helps teach the game. People might not love that, but that one gimmicky string that Scorpion had in MKX that was low-mid-overhead? That helped teach the game mechanics, 212 has plus frames, staggers, a punishable gap, etc. Same idea IMO, so I can see why it is the way it is.

I definitely don't think putting meter requirements on flawless block punishes that don't have it is a good idea. It feels great to jab punish Liu's F43U3.

I wish I had the optimism you do that NRS actually thought this through but there's absolutely no way they've thought that hard about anything in this game. There's too many "Why" things in this game and the games own internal logic isn't consistent. The thing about this also is that, flawless blockable strings allow for an element of meter management that the game currently lacks. Do I just want to hold this and play out the situation afterward or blow it up? Even if let's say you're right, that I'm reading into something that isn't there, it's just a design failure of the game regardless. Why bother incorporating this mechanic if it's often not even incorporated in a fully integrated manner in the most basic application it could be used in, which is blowing up certain strings?

These kinds of exceptions to the rule and weird multi option solutions that don't require a resource commitment are one of the reasons this game is not a viable competitive fighting game. There needs to be an internal set of fucking rules to the game, which it current can't make up it's mind about basic principles of gameplay. Nightwolf's 312 is just sometimes NOT flawless blockable for no perceptable reason. Tom's talked about this with creeping ice. This is not acceptable.

 

[ruthlezz97]

I didnt fully pay attention to what you were saying here (dont get mad,i am not trying to insult),but I personally despise MK11 right now,I literally have no desire to play the game. I am Raiden player,got fucked over HARD by NRS. When I still had passion my character wasnt working at all. Now,I dont even feel like turning on the game,even tho Raiden is amazing. There is something about this game that I just cant explain,it makes me not play. Really unique situation.

 

[Marinjuana]

I wish I had the optimism you do that NRS actually thought this through but there's absolutely no way they've thought that hard about anything in this game. There's too many "Why" things in this game and the games own internal logic isn't consistent. The thing about this also is that, flawless blockable strings allow for an element of meter management that the game currently lacks. Do I just want to hold this and play out the situation afterward or blow it up? Even if let's say you're right, that I'm reading into something that isn't there, it's just a design failure of the game regardless. Why bother incorporating this mechanic if it's often not even incorporated in a fully integrated manner in the most basic application it could be used in, which is blowing up certain strings?

These kinds of exceptions to the rule and weird multi option solutions that don't require a resource commitment are one of the reasons this game is not a viable competitive fighting game. There needs to be an internal set of fucking rules to the game, which it current can't make up it's mind about basic principles of gameplay. Nightwolf's 312 is just sometimes NOT flawless blockable for no perceptable reason. Tom's talked about this with creeping ice. This is not acceptable.

Then I agree that ice and 312 could be changed. I don't why you have to be so extra about it all. People like the game and they play it, what is this gate keeping "not a viable fighting game" stuff?

"Even if let's say you're right, that I'm reading into something that isn't there, it's just a design failure of the game regardless. Why bother incorporating this mechanic if it's often not even incorporated in a fully integrated manner in the most basic application it could be used in, which is blowing up certain strings?"

Well even if I was right, I don't agree. I enjoy the mechanic as currently implemented. And the mechanic is used all over the place, it blows up strings we talked about.

What about instances where flawless blocking reduces pushback and frames but you don't get a punish? Do you think that should be adjusted too? Those and the examples we mentioned are just variety to me. They could buff this move, nerf that, but I don't think it's a good idea to remove counterplay for the sake of more meter management. Which I don't think is an issue TBH, are you trying to make it so people use less meter on break aways and more on reversals? Like what's the motivation? I blast through my meter with the characters I play.

My biggest issue with the mechanic is that some characters reversals aren't as good as others, which is fine, but there's instances where an easy FB reversal punish for other characters doesn't exist on another. That could be improved IMO, but there is variety gained from unequal tools, like pokes. The moves being wakeup attacks is limiting from a design perspective.

 

[Zer0_h0ur]

It's funny bc when I was practicing FB'ing gaps the other day I did ask myself "Wait why the fuck would I want to FB Liu Kang's F4 string, if I'm reading the U4 I can just interrupt the damn string."

I also agree that FB gap strings should have some sort of benefit if not FBed.

 

[armani]

the answer to flawless blockable strings is.... staggering.

even with kitana, who remotely has some of the slowest normals in the game has a very good stagger arsenal with highborn.

there are plenty more examples (briggs & cage families, ninjas, shaolin monks) - stagger your shit and you won’t get flawless blocked. obviously it’s not the fix to everything but...

the best thing to do to a flawless blocker = make them question why they are committing to flawless blocking (stagger/strike/throw mixup)

 

[Chernyy Volk]

the answer to flawless blockable strings is.... staggering.

even with kitana, who remotely has some of the slowest normals in the game has a very good stagger arsenal with highborn.

there are plenty more examples (briggs & cage families, ninjas, shaolin monks) - stagger your shit and you won’t get flawless blocked. obviously it’s not the fix to everything but...

the best thing to do to a flawless blocker = make them question why they are committing to flawless blocking (stagger/strike/throw mixup)

You completely missed the point of this video. Why comment if you don't even watch?