General/Other - Ferra/Torr Ferra/Boss toss, what if...

[Barrogh]

So we had some discussion about F/T this morning with local dudes and something we came across was anti-projectile properties of Ferra.

How would it break Ferra/Torr if Ferra Toss and/or Boss Toss would:

- work against projectiles those moves currently don't absorb (mostly fast bullets like Cassie's or Jaqui's);
- fully trade (Ferra isn't disabled if Torr is hit)?
Damage adjustments may or may not apply.

What do you think?

 

[Trauma_and_Pain]

I'm sure it wouldn't break the character. As I see it, it's rather a question of whether this is something the character needs, or if other areas should be addressed instead, or both.

It would be cool if Vicious at least got something like this with Boss Toss. I don't really think anybody could accuse the variation of being broken or anything for it--she does have to run all the way back to us so it's not like you can spam it.

 

[Shade667]

Id like that, although im not having as much trouble with the zoning as I do getting out of the corner against characters like kung lao.

 

[Barrogh]

Id like that, although im not having as much trouble with the zoning as I do getting out of the corner against characters like kung lao.

I addressed this topic specifically because it looks so niche (besides possibly trades change since it possibly relevant up-close against some characters) and I lack in-depth understanding of F/T issues.

It would be cool if Vicious at least got something like this with Boss Toss. I don't really think anybody could accuse the variation of being broken or anything for it--she does have to run all the way back to us so it's not like you can spam it.

That's one of the options I was thinking about. Currently it doesn't look like vicious have decent set of advantages making it worth picking over other variations.

 

[GLoRToR]

Zoning is already rubbish in this game unless you're Quan.

 

[Barrogh]

Zoning is already rubbish in this game unless you're Quan.

It's more about inconsistencies. I don't quite get why Cassie's projectiles are specifically exempt from projectile crashing properties. Trade mechanism affects more than just zoning interaction, although you have a point.

 

[GLoRToR]

It's more about inconsistencies. I don't quite get why Cassie's projectiles are specifically exempt from projectile crashing properties.

Because they're True High and you can just duck to advance underneath them. She was meant to be not zoneable by non-zoners while actual zoners do wreck her shit if she tries to zone them instead of rushing them down. Consider Hollywood the middle hinge in this equation: zones better than non-zoners but has to rush down actual zoners.

 

[Barrogh]

Because they're True High and you can just duck to advance underneath them.

This can be said about many projectiles, but only fast bullet flavoured ones go through Ferra.

Considering this is mostly about like 2 matchups, I have to question intentional inability to "zone" Cassie specifically because I feel that with this in mind she wrecks F/T in pretty much any relative position.

Although maybe I just don't know how to play MU.

 

[GLoRToR]

Although maybe I just don't know how to play MU.

Superior njp with Ferra reaching all the way from Outworld to Disneyland.
Really good d1 with Ferra scraping.
Good armour, plenty of damage.
Check frame data and figure out when it's your turn.
Cassie can't zone anyone that isn't zoning.

 

[Trauma_and_Pain]

Zoning is already rubbish in this game unless you're Quan.

If that's the argument against changing e.g. Ferra losing hurtbox then the counter-argument would be that if zoning is so rubbish to begin with, then the change isn't a very big buff to Vicious. It would just make the variation slightly more counter-zoning oriented to the point of winning almost all projectile trades. There are still other types of zoning besides projectiles.

 

[GLoRToR]

If that's the argument against changing e.g. Ferra losing hurtbox then the counter-argument would be that if zoning is so rubbish to begin with, then the change isn't a very big buff to Vicious. It would just make the variation slightly more counter-zoning oriented to the point of winning almost all projectile trades. There are still other types of zoning besides projectiles.

My argument is that a good f/t player doesn't need that buff. If we can have one buff I'd sooner like to have another hit of armour to counteract Liu Kang's bullshit.

 

[Trauma_and_Pain]

Well yeah I would choose different buffs too, such as an AA right above our heads. It could be like Goro's sky punch with Ferra and maybe a Surface-to-Air grab without Ferra--doesn't have to do much damage, just something for controlling that space vs crossups.

I think Wetdoba suggested the Command Grab being more plus on hit or something like that. Various other suggestions in this forum I thought were sensible.

Or you know, if they give us a safe teleport, midscreen meterless 50/50's into 35% combos, and maybe 6 or 7 more Command Grabs (more ripping and squeezing plz kthnx) then I'd be fine with that too I guess.

 

[KuralKing]

Boss Toss needs to be able to go full screen again, and they need to fix Ferra/Torr so when torr is hit ferra based attacks still find the opponent.
And Also, give Torr a swing like the one in spoiler tag for AA!

In lackey if he could cancel out of his BF3 after he absorbed projectiles [hwarhg] that would be cool!

Spoiler: Pain & No Gain!

I'm talking about the swing before he throws ferra!

 

[Shade667]

Oh yeah, cassie. Those instant airs rinse any attempts I try to get in.

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

Boss Toss needs to be able to go full screen again, and they need to fix Ferra/Torr so when torr is hit ferra based attacks still find the opponent.
And Also, give Torr a swing like the one in spoiler tag for AA!

In lackey if he could cancel out of his BF3 after he absorbed projectiles [hwarhg] that would be cool!

Spoiler: Pain & No Gain!

I'm talking about the swing before he throws ferra!

YES THIS!!! that is the d2 I've been wanting, like 2 except vertical not horizontal.

 

[Doombawkz]

So we had some discussion about F/T this morning with local dudes and something we came across was anti-projectile properties of Ferra.

How would it break Ferra/Torr if Ferra Toss and/or Boss Toss would:

- fully trade (Ferra isn't disabled if Torr is hit)?

Its actually viable too

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

Oh yeah, cassie. Those instant airs rinse any attempts I try to get in.

Just gotta run and duck. 'Tis the struggle we bear.

 

[Barrogh]

Its actually viable too

Lmao. And you can trade pretty much with anything this way, not just projectiles, provided hitstun isn't too long. Good one.

 

[Doombawkz]

Lmao. And you can trade pretty much with anything this way, not just projectiles, provided hitstun isn't too long. Good one.

Yep. Bodies Tanya kobu's delayed pressure strings like nothing else will.

 

[MadeFromMetal]

Yep. Bodies Tanya kobu's delayed pressure strings like nothing else will.

Are you referring to the delayed rekkas? I went to the lab and tried this and she beat out reversal boss toss every time unless she max max max delays them. If she slightly delays, there's a gap but it isn't big enough to get the full move out and I eat the damage. Am I doing it wrong?

 

[Doombawkz]

Are you referring to the delayed rekkas? I went to the lab and tried this and she beat out reversal boss toss every time unless she max max max delays them. If she slightly delays, there's a gap but it isn't big enough to get the full move out and I eat the damage. Am I doing it wrong?

Yeah, but thats okay. I'm specifically referring to her delayed enders into the next ones, though with perfect timing you can squeeze it inbetween the normally delayed rekkas but it requires a buffer.

Theres a thing about ducking during certain parts of her rekkas which causes less blockstun.

 

[MadeFromMetal]

Yeah, but thats okay. I'm specifically referring to her delayed enders into the next ones, though with perfect timing you can squeeze it inbetween the normally delayed rekkas but it requires a buffer.

Theres a thing about ducking during certain parts of her rekkas which causes less blockstun.

Ducking...hmmm. Haven't tried that. Thanks.

 

[dennycascade]

Its actually viable too

This is really interesting! Do you have any setups where you do this consistently in game? That looks awesome.

 

[Doombawkz]

This is really interesting! Do you have any setups where you do this consistently in game? That looks awesome.

Considering it trades with anything and does the same, yeah. Against some characters, you get a pretty good mindgame where you can poke into raw Boss Toss and if they try to pressure you they get tapped.
Best example is Kotal because like a d.3 or something cancelled into boss toss trades with his absurd d.4 poke.

 

[dennycascade]

Considering it trades with anything and does the same, yeah. Against some characters, you get a pretty good mindgame where you can poke into raw Boss Toss and if they try to pressure you they get tapped.
Best example is Kotal because like a d.3 or something cancelled into boss toss trades with his absurd d.4 poke.

Do you have any success with d1 into boss toss trading with counter pokes and comboing?