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General/Other F2D4 on Hit

InFlames

dead
First of all, somethings to mention:

- Ares sucks
- this always whiffs if they are hit while crouching on everyone
- some characters can either interrupt, forward dash, or jump out of the d4 on block
- combo gravity differs by the range of f2
- f2d4 on hit is more random than @Mr Aquaman's Ares

Now here's the list of all the characters and whether f2d4 whiffs on hit:

Aquaman - hits
Ares - hits
Bane - hits
Batgirl - whiffs
Batman - hits
Black Adam - hits
Catwoman - whiffs
Cyborg - whiffs
Deathstroke - whiffs
Doomsday - hits
Flash - whiffs
Green Arrow - whiffs
Green Lantern - lolforgot
Harley Quinn - whiffs*
Hawkgirl - whiffs
Joker - hits
Killer Frost - whiffs*
Lex Luthor - hits
Lobo - whiffs
Martian Manhunter - hits
Nightwing - whiffs/whiffs
Raven - hits
Scorpion - whiffs
Shazam - hits
Sinestro - hits
Solomon Grundy - hits
Superman - hits
Wonder Woman - hits/whiffs
Zatanna - whiffs*
Zod - hits

* - means that it combos only at max range, not practical at all.

Now let me remind you once again, f2d4 is random as hell and should probably only be used in the corner after a blocked f3.

@4x4lo8o
@xInfra Deadx
@WaywardStranger
@orochiDragon
@WannabePlayer
@I forgot who else used Ares, rest in piece.
 
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4x4lo8o

Noob
@InFlames, how are you using f2d4?
Like for punishes or for footsies or are you trying to 50/50 with f23/f2~d4?

I basically only use f23 in the corner after f3, like you mentioned.
 

InFlames

dead
@InFlames, how are you using f2d4?
Like for punishes or for footsies or are you trying to 50/50 with f23/f2~d4?

I basically only use f23 in the corner after f3, like you mentioned.
for the ghetto 50/50 when they always block f23 after f3 in the wall

i can see it being useful for punishing vs aqua's trait tho
 

4x4lo8o

Noob
for the ghetto 50/50 when they always block f23 after f3 in the wall

i can see it being useful for punishing vs aqua's trait tho
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. For anything else b1 seems like a better option but I was sorta hoping you had some amazing breakthrough use for it
 

orochiDragon

PSN OROCHI-dragon / Archangel-44
I refuse to say Ares sucks until I see somebody play him using all of his tools. Everyone I have ever seen play Ares, plays a zone/counter zone game. If you really think about it, playing that way leaves you susceptible to all of his horrible midscreen quirks. We all know Ares rapes in the corner, plus his teleport, zoning, and combos make it super easy to get people there. The zone / counter zone game should only be a means to an end, than end being ridiculous corner set-ups. Of course, this is my op and not law lol.
 
What tools aren't being utilized? His tools are just garbage. Teleport and godsmack are bills and his zoning is mediocre at best. He doesn't have a good enough dash, walk speed, or normals to deal with most of the good characters in the neutral. And I don't understand what the big deal is with his corner game. Compared to many other characters it's quite tame.

Ares lacks options in too many matches. In matchups like MMH or Raven, the odds are nearly insurmountable if they get a life (they can react to everything Ares does with iatp and soul crush). What is Ares supposed to do against say Flash if he gets a life lead (which he will lbsh), or Zod if he gets a life lead. The answer is make a bs mb godsmack read and get punished for 50% life.

Ares is the worst character in the game. An Ares player's game plan every match is to hope the opponent has never played against Ares.
 

orochiDragon

PSN OROCHI-dragon / Archangel-44
What tools aren't being utilized? His tools are just garbage. Teleport and godsmack are bills and his zoning is mediocre at best. He doesn't have a good enough dash, walk speed, or normals to deal with most of the good characters in the neutral. And I don't understand what the big deal is with his corner game. Compared to many other characters it's quite tame.

Ares lacks options in too many matches. In matchups like MMH or Raven, the odds are nearly insurmountable if they get a life (they can react to everything Ares does with iatp and soul crush). What is Ares supposed to do against say Flash if he gets a life lead (which he will lbsh), or Zod if he gets a life lead. The answer is make a bs mb godsmack read and get punished for 50% life.

Ares is the worst character in the game. An Ares player's game plan every match is to hope the opponent has never played against Ares.
Ok so let me get this straight, you are the only ares that uses all his wake-up stopping set-ups ( many of which work even if u reverse inputs), his midscreen invisibility options ( including invisibility frame traps, meaty set-ups, and quick rises),and his B1 opinion select set-ups. And you do all of that, while at the same time, playing zone/ counter zone , missing minimal frame traps, trying to corner trap (im not even going to go through his corner options and set-ups), and making goods reads. Lol if you were doing all that at tournaments, you would make top 8 most times. If you were doing that online, you wouldn't be here crying. So, tell me more about how you play perfect Ares and still lose.
 
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xInfra Deadx

The laws of the universe mean nothing.
What tools aren't being utilized? His tools are just garbage. Teleport and godsmack are bills and his zoning is mediocre at best. He doesn't have a good enough dash, walk speed, or normals to deal with most of the good characters in the neutral. And I don't understand what the big deal is with his corner game. Compared to many other characters it's quite tame.

Ares lacks options in too many matches. In matchups like MMH or Raven, the odds are nearly insurmountable if they get a life (they can react to everything Ares does with iatp and soul crush). What is Ares supposed to do against say Flash if he gets a life lead (which he will lbsh), or Zod if he gets a life lead. The answer is make a bs mb godsmack read and get punished for 50% life.

Ares is the worst character in the game. An Ares player's game plan every match is to hope the opponent has never played against Ares.
Sounds like you're playing the wrong Ares players...
 
Ares is not the best but he damn sure isn't the worst.
He might be the worst. No one really knows how to play the MU tho.

-Ares has holes and gaps in his strings like Swiss cheese. The only good string he has is 22.
-His keep away is okay at best.
-He has shit wake ups.
-Ares good normals are only J1, 22, and B1.
-People don't know his pressure ends at a blocked D1, and people think D1D4 links but it has a 14 frame gap.
-Ares walks like he has arthritis.
-Ares dash is shit.
-Ares pressure is generic, while others are better.
-He really can't play footsies vs anyone else.
-His mu's are shit because of the reasons I listed.

Ares has so many fundamental problems cause he's basically sub par in almost everything. If you know how to fight Ares, you should be good to go.
 

orochiDragon

PSN OROCHI-dragon / Archangel-44
He might be the worst. No one really knows how to play the MU tho.

-Ares has holes and gaps in his strings like Swiss cheese. The only good string he has is 22.
-His keep away is okay at best.
-He has shit wake ups.
-Ares good normals are only J1, 22, and B1.
-People don't know his pressure ends at a blocked D1, and people think D1D4 links but it has a 14 frame gap.
-Ares walks like he has arthritis.
-Ares dash is shit.
-Ares pressure is generic, while others are better.
-He really can't play footsies vs anyone else.
-His mu's are shit because of the reasons I listed.

Ares has so many fundamental problems cause he's basically sub par in almost everything. If you know how to fight Ares, you should be good to go.
Lol ok bro.
1- Ares strings don't have holes. It's that stupid 14 frame gap on d4 cancels. That can be easily baited with frame traps. Unless you're playing a perfect person, they won't
D1 every time they block a D1. This opens them up to D1, d1d4 plus all the frame traps.

2- Of course his keep away is simply ok. He has two special moves that easily punish almost all other projectiles lol. If they sit and block or duck then they are obviously looking for tele or gs. Y would u do a move that your opponent is obviously waiting on? Answer, you don't. .... just go invisible and keep chucking hot plasma and axes. He has options so keep mixing them up.

3- Lol what!? You're telling me that being able to wake-up mb teleport directly behind and punish most meaty set-ups is garbage ( not to mention the other directions)? What about the fact that mb gs jumps over most meaty set-ups, it punishes every "scoop" style move, and it's useful for escaping.

4- Pressure ends at blocked d1 ( plz 'reread the part about the frame traps lol)? Only if they perfectly use their d1 in retaliation to yours every time.

He's not the worst. You just don't use
all his tools. .....
 
Lol ok bro.
1- Ares strings don't have holes. It's that stupid 14 frame gap on d4 cancels. That can be easily baited with frame traps. Unless you're playing a perfect person, they won't
D1 every time they block a D1. This opens them up to D1, d1d4 plus all the frame traps.

2- Of course his keep away is simply ok. He has two special moves that easily punish almost all other projectiles lol. If they sit and block or duck then they are obviously looking for tele or gs. Y would u do a move that your opponent is obviously waiting on? Answer, you don't. .... just go invisible and keep chucking hot plasma and axes. He has options so keep mixing them up.

3- Lol what!? You're telling me that being able to wake-up mb teleport directly behind and punish most meaty set-ups is garbage ( not to mention the other directions)? What about the fact that mb gs jumps over most meaty set-ups, it punishes every "scoop" style move, and it's useful for escaping.

4- Pressure ends at blocked d1 ( plz 'reread the part about the frame traps lol)? Only if they perfectly use their d1 in retaliation to yours every time.

He's not the worst. You just don't use
all his tools. .....
1. Huh? What are you talking about? D1 is -4 lol. Why would I ever not pressure you after a d1?

2. Why would I just be sitting crouched across the screen waiting for a teleport? You need to ask yourself these questions more when thinking about a characters tools. Teleport and gs aren't nearly threatining enough to have me sitting full screen scared to move. I might be turtling with a life lead as flash or mmh, but an Ares throwing his mediocre projectiles will surely guarantee defeat.

3. Ares wake ups are ok. Better off than some after the tele buff but still baitable and punishable. I can just sit there and wait to see what you do, you are making assumptions that the opponent will blindly be pressuring on wakeup.

4. Again please elaborate. His d1 is -4. No decent player is going to get hit by d1, d1.

Lastly, I do not play Ares. I've played probably a thousand games offline with different characters against @4x4lo8o. Most of the things you have described don't work on people that have MU experience.
 

orochiDragon

PSN OROCHI-dragon / Archangel-44
1. Huh? What are you talking about? D1 is -4 lol. Why would I ever not pressure you after a d1?

2. Why would I just be sitting crouched across the screen waiting for a teleport? You need to ask yourself these questions more when thinking about a characters tools. Teleport and gs aren't nearly threatining enough to have me sitting full screen scared to move. I might be turtling with a life lead as flash or mmh, but an Ares throwing his mediocre projectiles will surely guarantee defeat.

3. Ares wake ups are ok. Better off than some after the tele buff but still baitable and punishable. I can just sit there and wait to see what you do, you are making assumptions that the opponent will blindly be pressuring on wakeup.

4. Again please elaborate. His d1 is -4. No decent player is going to get hit by d1, d1.

Lastly, I do not play Ares. I've played probably a thousand games offline with different characters against @4x4lo8o. Most of the things you have described don't work on people that have MU experience.
1- My exact words were" unless you're playing a perfect person, they won't d1 every time you d1." Unless @4x4lo8o tells me that you, 100% of the time hit d1 (in that situation), and you never go for any other normals or specials, my point still stands. You said "not pressure after a d1" I never said you couldn't, I'm saying only if they apply pressure that is not d1, then it can work. Especially if you do d1, mb gs once or twice.

2- Lol if you play mmh, you have one special that stops everything I have. Everyone with an attacking teleport does that, so yea.....bad match up city lol. Flash get through any projectile with meter. It's not the easy for every character. Alot of people will just duck a few shots then counter.

3- I said " meaty set-ups" ,meaning only if they try and pressure your wake-up. I assumed nothing. I never said they would, I implied if they do.

4- Same as 1. Unless you're perfect, and you hit d1 in retaliation for my d1, 100% of the time. Unless you're so good, you hit the attack with timing perfect down to the single frame ( or two), you don't really want to hit anything else but d1 after I d1. Especially if im trying to keep you honest with d1, mb gs ( once or twice), and I have good frame traps.

All that to say, he's not the worst. He has options. Some characters like mmh and flash really suck for him to fight, but he still has options ( even if they are sub-par)
 

InFlames

dead
1- My exact words were" unless you're playing a perfect person, they won't d1 every time you d1." Unless @4x4lo8o tells me that you, 100% of the time hit d1 (in that situation), and you never go for any other normals or specials, my point still stands. You said "not pressure after a d1" I never said you couldn't, I'm saying only if they apply pressure that is not d1, then it can work. Especially if you do d1, mb gs once or twice.

2- Lol if you play mmh, you have one special that stops everything I have. Everyone with an attacking teleport does that, so yea.....bad match up city lol. Flash get through any projectile with meter. It's not the easy for every character. Alot of people will just duck a few shots then counter.

3- I said " meaty set-ups" ,meaning only if they try and pressure your wake-up. I assumed nothing. I never said they would, I implied if they do.

4- Same as 1. Unless you're perfect, and you hit d1 in retaliation for my d1, 100% of the time. Unless you're so good, you hit the attack with timing perfect down to the single frame ( or two), you don't really want to hit anything else but d1 after I d1. Especially if im trying to keep you honest with d1, mb gs ( once or twice), and I have good frame traps.

All that to say, he's not the worst. He has options. Some characters like mmh and flash really suck for him to fight, but he still has options ( even if they are sub-par)
why is this still going on

d1 is -4 so any attack 9 frames or faster will beat another d1, they can pressure everytime on reaction. d1 godsmack beats strings but pokes recover fast enough to mb b3 or jump out and punish

there is seriously no reason to keep blocking after blocking a d1, d1 ends your pressure
 

orochiDragon

PSN OROCHI-dragon / Archangel-44
why is this still going on

d1 is -4 so any attack 9 frames or faster will beat another d1, they can pressure everytime on reaction. d1 godsmack beats strings but pokes recover fast enough to mb b3 or jump out and punish

there is seriously no reason to keep blocking after blocking a d1, d1 ends your pressure
You're misunderstand what i'm saying. You are 100% correct when you say any attack 9 frames or faster can interrupt d1, d1.
But I am also correct when I say that a human being is physically unable to hit the
9 frame move in the 9-10 frame gap consistently.
You will be 2-3 frames off( maybe more if your not a pro or are playing online), meaning u might want to use a 6 frame move to consistently interrupt that ( like a d1).
All im saying is damn, if all of you guys can easily slip a 9 frame move in a 9-10 frame gap consistently.....I really suck :(.
 

Qwark28

Jacks off to good voice acting
You're misunderstand what i'm saying. You are 100% correct when you say any attack 9 frames or faster can interrupt d1, d1.
But I am also correct when I say that a human being is physically unable to hit the
9 frame move in the 9-10 frame gap consistently.
.
Oh my days, my eyes.