Question - Cyber Sub-Zero F2 Replacing 1112, more nerfs soon?

[Zoidberg747]

Nice vid Jagged. Takeda has one with his NJP/EX Low Kunai that leads to combo and as hard to block as Quan's, anywhere on the screen, that people still use all the time. He also has inescapable block strings with a bar that do a ton of chip and build meter. That's just one character.



A quick summary-

Butcher Batgirl- OH/Low that leads to high damage anywhere, combo restands twice ending + enough to guarantee another 50/50. If get hit once, and guess wrong once, you've lost almost 80% life and are in the corner to lose the rest of the % since the carry of two combos is 9/10 of the screen.

Killer- The Chainsaw Rip, which in block strings becomes a safe on block special with pushback, and strings on hit become chainsaw cancels for easy 40% midscreen BnB's, are his plan. So by doing a string of his choosing into Rip, he will either be A) safe on block at an ideal distance or B) cancel on hit into a combo for 40% or a few less % into a restand.

At any moment he can get in with a half screen advancing +2 on block OH hitting also AA'ing special, that when EX'd becomes an unsafe but dangerous OH combo starter.



Slow week speed though so he's fair. Nerf TriBorg to the ground.

He isn't a replica of Batgirl, but they have enough similarities with their huge screen carry 50/50 vortex. Batgirls did more damage in the corner where LF does more midscreen. Then there's differences like Batgirl had a teleport and Butcher has a 6f Cmd grab. Not exactly the same, but similarities are very strong bs and very strong punishment for "guessing" wrong anywhere on the screen. If the low option was safe he'd be Stupid Tier.

The more people play Killer the more I'm hearing how strong it is. The weakest of the 3 against zoning, but most characters keepaway isn't that great as it is, and at worst his EX Low on a read gets him in. Everyone complained about safe 50/50's for almost a year, but Killer has them that lead to hella damage and I've barely heard a peep. What changed? These are worse because they are safe on block and easily hit confirmable on hit. On top of all that the character has great WUs, great range, godlike corner carry, mixup options of all types, great almost everything.

When it's all settled I think LF will be the best because his tools are built to last. Broken Bo stuff likely will be removed, where as LF probably stays mostly the same. Tools are very easy to use, and give him too many risk/reward advantages.


I just feel like there's a lot of silliness with the DLC in general, but there also is in MKX. It's either acceptable across the board or needs to be adjusted across the board. CSZ is a strong character, possibly one of the best, but is he "broken" in the game of MKX we play? Doubt it. People should talk about all the characters if they have issues with it, not single out two variations that are good like they are some beyond broken characters but then say "clutch move by Bio" when he does a 55% 1 bar midscreen combo to win a match.

This is off topic but some of this is false.

In Butcher you either go for the vortex or the damage, not both. The vortex is between 25-30% each time. So if you get hit once and guess wrong you lose 60% life(which is a lot still lol). Also if you want the max damage vortex options you have to use crossover jips. If you want corner carry you have to sacrifice more damage.

Im not saying Butcher doesnt need changes, he does. But you are kind of exaggerating what he can actually do. His corner game is what is truly broke.

Killer has no 50/50s. At least not any that lead to a full combo. His fastest comboable OH in Killer is 32 frames. 32 lol. Everything else you said is fair.

As said above, Killer needs some changes but saying he has 50/50s is false.

To stay semi on-topic I think CSZ is fine the way he is now.

 

[SaltShaker]

This is off topic but some of this is false.

In Butcher you either go for the vortex or the damage, not both. The vortex is between 25-30% each time. So if you get hit once and guess wrong you lose 60% life(which is a lot still lol). Also if you want the max damage vortex options you have to use crossover jips. If you want corner carry you have to sacrifice more damage.

Im not saying Butcher doesnt need changes, he does. But you are kind of exaggerating what he can actually do. His corner game is what is truly broke.

Killer has no 50/50s. At least not any that lead to a full combo. His fastest comboable OH in Killer is 32 frames. 32 lol. Everything else you said is fair.

As said above, Killer needs some changes but saying he has 50/50s is false.

To stay semi on-topic I think CSZ is fine the way he is now.

Butcher 25-30%? I don't play him but my main sparring partner uses him so I fight him almost every day. I swear I'm getting hit by like 32-34% each time midscreen and then have to "guess" the OH/Low. I'll double check tomorrow when we play but I know for sure I'm not seeing 25%. I think there's a crossup Jip sometimes so you're probably saying that's why it's more one time and less another? But yea, it's a silly amount of damage when you guess wrong. Lost many matches with no breaker and guessing wrong once. I'm not even gonna mention his corner game Lmao! Nerf CSZ.

That's not how I get hit. In Killer. He does like a Tanya thing, whatever the string is that is high/OH. It's pretty quick so if I'm blocking low by the time I see it I got to stand block but get hit by the OH of the 2nd hit. Or a couple of times I was fast enough but he only did the first hit on block and then went to do the low instead of the 2nd hit OH. No way you can react to that lol. Mixes it up pretty well so I have a hard time just going fuzzy guard mode in the pace of a match. Every now and then I can, but never consistently because he switches it up to throw me off. And even when I guess correctly he's safe always. And if I guess wrong he has a year to hit confirm into possibly the best corner carry in the game.

Pretty Lady is the only variation that seems "normal enough", but yea the other too are probably better than any variation of TriBorg.



Every day that goes by people are finally realizing that the Borgs aren't the only thing going on with the DLC lol.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Butcher 25-30%? I don't play him but my main sparring partner uses him so I fight him almost every day. I swear I'm getting hit by like 32-34% each time midscreen and then have to "guess" the OH/Low. I'll double check tomorrow when we play but I know for sure I'm not seeing 25%. I think there's a crossup Jip sometimes so you're probably saying that's why it's more one time and less another? But yea, it's a silly amount of damage when you guess wrong. Lost many matches with no breaker and guessing wrong once. I'm not even gonna mention his corner game Lmao! Nerf CSZ.

That's not how I get hit. In Killer. He does like a Tanya thing, whatever the string is that is high/OH. It's pretty quick so if I'm blocking low by the time I see it I got to stand block but get hit by the OH of the 2nd hit. Or a couple of times I was fast enough but he only did the first hit on block and then went to do the low instead of the 2nd hit OH. No way you can react to that lol. Mixes it up pretty well so I have a hard time just going fuzzy guard mode in the pace of a match. Every now and then I can, but never consistently because he switches it up to throw me off. And even when I guess correctly he's safe always. And if I guess wrong he has a year to hit confirm into possibly the best corner carry in the game.

Pretty Lady is the only variation that seems "normal enough", but yea the other too are probably better than any variation of TriBorg.



Every day that goes by people are finally realizing that the Borgs aren't the only thing going on with the DLC lol.

Meterless I thought Butcher didn't break 30% with his vortex options. Your partner may have more optimal combos than me though I guess.

Thats not a true 50/50 lol. 1 is plus but not plus enough that the low is anywhere near guaranteed. If you want to avoid having to react to it just input an armor OS because if he tries the low after 1 he will get blown up(you can also do a backdash OS if you don't want to use meter). He's also only safe against some characters because its -8 with some pushback. Worst case scenario you are back at neutral, and while I think LF players underrate his neutral its still not incredible by any stretch.

I wont speak on being better than triborg because I havent had time to lab with them yet, but I would work on the killer MU because it seems like you're letting your training partner get away with stuff he shouldn't be. My .02$

 

[its_ezie]

Majority of people crying don't even play the character! Lots of characters are death in the corner, this isn't a new thing. GM Sub Zero is a nightmare too, but no ones crying for nerfs there. I pray that NRS lets this thing play out before they make any rash decisions. CSZ in the corner is not a death sentence.

This is the nature of NRS and majority of their community lol they never listen. They just bend to whatever the cry babys say and nerf unnecessary characters and tech. Its the way of life sadly

 

[ThePunisher026]

I can only hope that they up his Ice ball. If Cyber Sub, or Triborg in general takes another hit, the character would just be a bigger waste of space than what they turned him into now. Hopefully they realize that the nerf was a bit too much and actually boost him up. http://www.thepetitionsite.com/397/260/113/fix-triborg-in-mkxl/#sign <-- sign that to make it happen!