Tech EX Invisibility

[fleshmasher]

This popped up in the "They patching Smoke" thread.

My thoughts on :en Invisibility a.k.a. Vanish:

Specials:

(+) / (+) Smoke(Phase) Towards/Away visual effects are still visible, show where you are.
But Smoke Away still good for Hit'Run.

(+) Shake(Vibration) visual effects still visible to a lesser degree too. But also recognizable as Shake.
And the difference between Shake and :en Vibration shows.

(+) Teleport(Smokeport) visual effect leaves it still punishable on block.
The Teleport(Smokeport) visual effect helps the opponents punishment timing.

Miscellaneous:

:en Invisibility is retriggerable. You can stay invisible quite long with 2 bars.

All normals are invisible.

:en Invisibility i like in combination with .
For example :en Inv. after as combo ender. (cancel fast)

Blocking when invisible is also quite good. Even though you lose invisibility when blocking, Bomb/Teleport/full combo Punishment is good with Smoke.

Your thoughts?

 

[Zebster]

This popped up in the "They patching Smoke" thread.

My thoughts on :en Invisibility:

Smoke Towards/Away visual effects are still visible, show where you are.
Shake/Tremor visual effects too. Are also recognizable as Shake.
Even the difference between Shake and :en Tremor shows.

To be edited.

Last time I checked (back in 1.01), at full screen a Smoke teleport punch hits before the Smoke effect shows.

 

[fleshmasher]

Your quoting of me is not about (blk) Teleport/Smokeport i'm confused. lol.

Concerning the blk) Teleport(Smokeport):
Yeah i meant on block. i'll edit.
The blk) Teleport(Smokeport) visual effect helps the opponents punishment timing.
Even when invisible.

 

[ApocaLips]

Your opponent can always figure out where you are by how much the camera is panned out, so sneaking in on them isn't going to work. There's really no way to get next to them without them noticing, and then they can just stick out random crouching 1s and 3s to break your invisibility. I definitely wouldn't risk the meter on it.

 

[cabibi]

Your opponent can always figure out where you are by how much the camera is panned out, so sneaking in on them isn't going to work. There's really no way to get next to them without them noticing, and then they can just stick out random crouching 1s and 3s to break your invisibility. I definitely wouldn't risk the meter on it.

They can usually tell where you are from a horizontal perspective, but from a vertical one, they honestly have no idea. I've caught tons of people by getting in with a High Teleport punch followed by a back 2, 3 smoke bomb. By the time they figure out what's going on you already have them in a combo.

I don't know why people knock invisibility. It's just like any other move... you have to use it right.... you can't just sneak up on someone like Sam Fisher. You shouldn't really play any differently from your normal methods of getting in, but it DOES give you an advantage if you vary your approaches.

 

[Zebster]

Your quoting of me is not about (blk) Teleport/Smokeport i'm confused. lol.

I don't remember what I was thinking when I wrote that post... i think I was just trying to add something to it?

 

[ApocaLips]

You can anticipate it because of the smoke cloud. It's actually enough of an indicator that they can nail you with something fast on the way down. It'll work a couple times maybe on good players, but eventually they'll catch on and punish you.

Might be better post-patch though. We'll have to see. D+1 spam still really messes that up though.

Again, people knock invisibility because you could be doing better things at any time when you do that. I'd rather definitely get two ticks of meter from a blocked smoke bomb then more than likely get knocked out of an approach attempt from invisibility with a d+1.

 

[SZSR]

Your opponent can always figure out where you are by how much the camera is panned out, so sneaking in on them isn't going to work. There's really no way to get next to them without them noticing, and then they can just stick out random crouching 1s and 3s to break your invisibility. I definitely wouldn't risk the meter on it.

You know he has a combo starter, B+1, 4 which has monstrous range and following up with :en Smoke bomb. Yeah, it's 2 meters, but it's useful, and can definitely do awesome damage.

 

[ApocaLips]

You know he has a combo starter, B+1, 4 which has monstrous range and following up with :en Smoke bomb. Yeah, it's 2 meters, but it's useful, and can definitely do awesome damage.

What does that have to do with anything? If you do it at mid screen, you've either given up a golden oki opportunity or you're going to get punished. From full screen, you're almost certain to have to block something on the way in, ending your invisibility.

 

[SZSR]

What does that have to do with anything? If you do it at mid screen, you've either given up a golden oki opportunity or you're going to get punished. From full screen, you're almost certain to have to block something on the way in, ending your invisibility.

.... Do you even know what B+1, 4 looks like? It doesn't give you advantage sure, but it's not like you can't dodge on the way using telepunch or just ducking, dashing or jumping.

 

[ApocaLips]

Yes. Its range isnt that good. Certainly not half/full screen. If you're talking about the 4 part - WAY too slow to do anything.

TPing from full screen like that is liable to get you killed (and as I've explained many times, doing it from the air subjugates you do D+1 spam, ending your invisibility), smoke port gives away your postion, and so does smoke bomb. You can only block dash to retain your mask, but you're prolly gonna have to block something on the way in. You're probably not going to get to keep your invis.

 

[cabibi]

It's not the only option though. of course there's a way to counter it.. there's a way to counter everything in this game... It's invisibility, not invincibility. You don't even have to attack.... half the time I go invisible, and the opponent panics and does something like a sub zero slide to knock me out of it.... I let them, but what I did was basically just set up a block and punish. If you sat mid screen in low block without invisibility, there's no way someone would just throw out a slide... but when you're invisible, oponnents tend to panic and desperately try to do anything to make you visible again. all you have to do is take advantage of it. Smoke has the tools to turn the tables on any attempt from an opponent to knock you out of it.

If you want to try something hilarious.... go invisible and just wait for them to do something stupid...

When they get wise to it... the next time you go invisible....and they just sit there and block...

throw out an uppercut... or just an air 214 combo from mid screen... the grunts smoke makes throws your opponent into a panic and they'll break their block to try and get you.... just throw a smoke bomb lol. Makes me laugh every time I do i t lmao.

 

[SZSR]

Yes. Its range isnt that good. Certainly not half/full screen. If you're talking about the 4 part - WAY too slow to do anything.

TPing from full screen like that is liable to get you killed (and as I've explained many times, doing it from the air subjugates you do D+1 spam, ending your invisibility), smoke port gives away your postion, and so does smoke bomb. You can only block dash to retain your mask, but you're prolly gonna have to block something on the way in. You're probably not going to get to keep your invis.

When you find a full screen normal, let me know but as far as i'm concerned, that unexpected chip damage has helped me out plenty of times. I barely Smokeport, but when I do it's when the opponent is approaching (dashing or a movement attack), so don't think i'm doing it unsafely. Invisibility is there for unexpected setups, not to be my end all be all, when each situation presents itself I act accordingly. But B+1, 4, is more viable than you put on.

 

[ApocaLips]

Not saying it isn't viable (mostly because it's irrelevant here, but I don't consider it a great string), but it doesn't help the situation presented. Also, if you're playing people who do unsafe things at full screen that can be TPed so readily, you don't need much to win.

He doesn't have a full screen normal. That's the point. He doesn't have a lot of options from the ranges where he can use invis to make use of it and reliably keep it.

 

[cabibi]

Not saying it isn't viable (mostly because it's irrelevant here, but I don't consider it a great string), but it doesn't help the situation presented. Also, if you're playing people who do unsafe things at full screen that can be TPed so readily, you don't need much to win.

He doesn't have a full screen normal. That's the point. He doesn't have a lot of options from the ranges where he can use invis to make use of it and reliably keep it.

You don't need to keep it. like I said, alot of times I just purposely loose it on block to bait a punishable reaction from the opponent. When you're invisible with smoke.... you can literally turtle and still consider it offensive.

 

[ApocaLips]

And again, if you're baiting punishable moves from full screen just due to an invis use, your opponent prolly sucks.

 

[cabibi]

And again, if you're baiting punishable moves from full screen just due to an invis use, your opponent prolly sucks.

I do it on good players alot too. You can't expect to keep spamming it and expect the same results, if you spam anything your opponent is going to get wise to it if they're decent, but if you mix it up it's absolutely a viable strategy.

 

[G4S KT]

if you mix it up it's absolutely a viable strategy.

This is pretty much the lesson to take away from this thread

Sent from my Eris using Tapatalk

 

[UsedForGlue]

The only way to get a safe invisibility or stealth and be right at the opponent is to do this combo I came up with.

b2 3 db2 - 3 d1 2 - f4 du3 - You will get a safe invisibility, and as soon as your are finished turning, you will also be able to do a wiffed teleport punch, ending up right next to them as they get up off the ground...the camera pans in close later than your actual teleport with this combo, and if you want to mix it up, you will be able to jump over the opponent after the teleport also.

It has an even better effect if you are completely invisible.