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ESPORTS Will Destroy Fighting Games and Will Destroy MK.

Courante

Give all to another and save yourself
Why is it that you can draw a direct line between a a fighitng series becoming:

A) More Competetive
B) More Mainstream

and the game also being

a) dumbed down mechanically (more "accessible")
b) less exciting / slower

We had/are having this discussion with

  1. Street Fighter
  2. MK
  3. Guilty Gear
  4. Dead or Alive
  5. Marvel vs Capcom
  6. Soul Calibur 6 (dead fucking game lmao)
All of these games are clearly trying to appeal to the widest market possible and shifting away from core players.

Popped into a livestream and apparently people take any critique of MK11 personally to the point of becoming visibily frustrated that the discussion is even being had.

"If you liked X you had no neutral"
"9 was jank shit we've come a long way"
"If you don't like MK11 then X was your first game"

Like holy shit look around you. You cannot deny that there has been and will continue to be a trend with newly released fighitng games that seek to radically redesign themselves in order to appeal to people who don't fucking like fighting games. And for what? Sales and ESPORTS $? Imagine flushing an entire genre down the toilet for ESPORTS appeal.

Fighting games are shipping with:

i. Smaller Rosters
ii. Pre-Release on disc DLC
iii. Core Characters missing to be on said DLC
iv. Bare Minimum features (ie paying 60/80/100 for online ranked and training mode lmao)
v. slower nuetral based approach but also gimping or removing moves from characters to make it more balanced
vi. ESPORTS TM (C) $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
vii. fifty fucking season passes etc.
viii. dumbass cross promos

MVCI:
  • looked like trash
  • trash roster
  • simple inputs
  • MCU IP for normie $$$$$
  • E fucking SPORTS baby
game flopped

SFV:
  • trash launch roster
  • eCAPCOM PRO SPORTS TOUR
  • no fucking story mode or arcade mode or any fun additional shit that used to be there when fighitng games were still videogames and devs wanted to put cool content in
  • NERFED EVERY CHARACTER AFTER BETA
  • less creativity / balanced / less moves
  • 65 million DLC packs
  • CRUSH COUNTER so normies know when they got a counter hit
game was dog at launch but got better once devs started to add complex characters and deepened mechanics over time. 8/10 game now though

Mortal Kombat 11

  • variations are back and worse than ever (wtf was going on at launch lmao)
  • grindy FOMO chain yourself to your console SP content
  • launch roster was dog (all your favorites are dead LUL)
  • NEUTRAL IS FINALLY HERE !
  • but say goodbye to staple moves, movement, execution, meter management, high octane mixups, setplay, combos, and creativity
  • custom variations but with objectively trash moves that never seem to get buffed
  • Breakaway
  • Wakeups were hard so we got rid of them for a universal hold your hand baby's first wakeup system
  • KrUshINg BlOW so normies know when they got a counter hit
- Strike throw strike throw strike throw strike throw HOLY SHIT HE DIDNT FINISH HIS STRING OMG THE MINDGAMES OMG NICE THROW TECH
  • E S P O R T S
  • Rounda Rousey
DOA6

  • dumb downed gameplay
  • tiny launch roster with core characters missing or on-disc DLC
  • fanservice bad we need the esports audience
  • release with no fucking content
  • no lobbies for online play
  • fanservice is good actually please play dress up with your waifus (600000000 DLC PACKS) we need money
game is literally dead already

GUILTY GEAR -S T R I V E-

  • dumbed down for people who never liked the series enough to learn
  • less moves per character
  • C O U N T E R
  • nerfed movement and setplay
  • THE CORNER FUCKING BREAKS SO BABIES DON'T HALF TO LEARN DEFENSE KEKW
  • tiny as fuck launch roster with less than 16 characters confirmed at launch L M A O
  • E
  • S
  • P
  • O
  • R
  • T
  • S
  • 100% gauranteed
Granblue Fantasy

  • ez inputs and cooldown system for RPG players I guess and mobile
  • 0 fucking meaningful content
  • 11 FUCKING CHARACTERS AT LAUNCH
Not a single lie detected.
 
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Vslayer

Kurses in moose
Moderator
Premium Supporter
Say what you want, MKX encouraged mashing and we definitely did NOT learn neutral from that game. It's so far from a good example of what a competitive fighter should be.

But yeah fighters becoming mainstream has been a damn issue. Companies want to make more and more money, the more ''accessible'' it is, the more people buy it, the more money they make. To them it makes sense, but it's the core players that get shafted. Nothing we can do about it.
 

Savage8-8

Premium
Premium Supporter
Nothing you wrote about MK11 has anything to do with designers dumbing down fighting games. This has been an issue for some time. What you need to realize is not everyone feels the way you do. People on THIS very forum were complaining about execution barriers being a waste of time for moves during the beta for MK11.

Fighting games have gotten alot simpler in an attempt to attract more gamers to the genre. This is the reality we have been living in since MKX and the launch of SFV.
 

Demon_0

Shao Kahn is back!
I agree that fighters in general have been dumbed down to be more accessible for more (casual) players. I mean, look at SFIV which had one-frame links. SFV is childsplay compared to the execution you needed in SFIV. But this certainly doesn't apply to MK11.

It's definitely the deepest of the past three MK games considering it actually has footsies and balance. The flawless block mechanic alone would prove this which is the hardest-to-execute mechanic MK has ever had imo.
 
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Zer0_h0ur

XBL tag: South of Zero
The problem with millenials and dude in their 20s pointing out how fighting games are getting worse is that you're beginning to show your age and critical of what younger generations are into "Back in my day..." etc syndrome.

And this is coming from someone that's almost 40. It happens to every generation. People change and when those generations age and look at things and video games they love and played: they don't stay the same. It's life.
 

Courante

Give all to another and save yourself
it's not like mk9 and mkx were complicated games, I don't think I would say MK11 got dumber than those 2
Old MK games were jank af but had SOUL

More execution in 9 and it actually had its own neutral game. Actual meter management, set ups, characters had tons of moves, etc. Degenerate vortexes and chip setups were there but that shit was nuts to watch and try and do yourself

X had execution, actually fun variations for the most part, CUHRAZY mixups, run cancel, stamina and meter management, armor system. Actual wakeups , etc.

11 has neutral, better core fundamentals at the cost of fun factor
 

jmt

Noob
First of all fighting games are barely esports at this time. There are a handful of guys that can actually make money playing fighting games. It’s just not big compared to the massive esports games/genres.

So whether or not NRS makes mk easier or not is totally irrelevant. Fighting games on the competitive level are basically dead other than the few of us out there that follow it.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Lol what

Reads the paper

Someone didn’t pay attention MK history class :coffee:

Mortal Kombat actually started off as being FOR the casuals, became kinda wacky and more un-mk-like starting with MK4, and only later intentionally incorporated more advanced mechanics designed for competitive play with 2d fighting and a visual style resembling the golden era. Most of the older titles just saw people taking advantage of glitches or bugs, and it wasn’t until recently that they really started putting effort in to make sure that games were solid for both competitive scene and hardcore fans of the original trio.

But this franchise was designed to appeal to casuals/the masses from the very beginning.

Sooooo...

Grade: F
You’re gonna have to retake this one next semester :p
 

Courante

Give all to another and save yourself
Lol what

Reads the paper

Someone didn’t pay attention MK history class :coffee:

Mortal Kombat actually started off as being FOR the casuals, became kinda wacky and more un-mk-like starting with MK4, and only later intentionally incorporated more advanced mechanics designed for competitive play with 2d fighting and a style resembling the golden era. Most of the older titles just saw people taking advantage of glitches or bugs, and it wasn’t until recently that they really started putting effort in to make sure that games were solid for both competitive scene and hardcore fans of the original trio.

But this franchise was designed to appeal to casuals/the masses from the very beginning.

Sooooo...

Grade: F
You’re gonna have to retake this one next semester :p
This would make sense if it wasnt blatantly obvious that the expressed intent of MK11 was to make it more accessible. If MK11 was always supposed to be casual why change the formula so radically that literally everyone noticed.

Be honest shadow, automatic meter Regen, defensive bar "cooldowns" recharging fatal blow, removal of wakeups, breakaway were not implemented to make the game more hardcore.

And what about the rest of the post you decided to ignore?

Grade: D- neglected over half the material