Unforgivxble
Don status KHAOTIC Jink
Erron Black has always been one of those unexplored characters I feel. People kind of recently have been starting to explore his other variations but I'm still not sure which one is his best. Outlaw seems to be irrelevant now unless you like reversal sand or really like the sword ender, but this thread is mainly between gunslinger and marksman.
Let's talk about which one is simply put, better.
Gunslinger offers a variety of zoning options with stance 4, the two mid shots, stance 2 the double up shots that aa really well, and stance 3 the multiple low shots that can break armor much like stance 2. Gunslinger gets good meter less damage in the corner and has pretty good corner carry on his combos that lead into more zoning or pressure. The problem I find with it is that without meter he's generally unsafe much like outlaw. You can do f13 into low shots but I believe if they have fast enough armor they can armor through (if I'm wrong on that, they can always armor the last hit anyways) but I feel once it comes down to it, a good player will be able to read what you're going to do purely based off of reactions. If they don't see the low come out just poke, the stance 2 won't hit you if you poke, and stance 4 has a gap in the second hit up close. It's obviously not as cut and dry as that, but It seems like you're risking getting punished for not that big of a reward. I'm not too educated in gunslinger as in what strings into stance 3 can be armored through
If the armor is fast enough, so if I'm wrong on anything just tell me and I'll edit it or something like that.
Marksman is Erron Black's pressure/safe variation I feel. The zoning options he gets are pretty trash being that the mid shot is not good for anything (zoning wise) unless a last resort, due to its poor recovery and same with db1. They are just too slow to really lock down your opponent like gunslinger. However, marksman has a much scarier close up game with the relatively safe 50 50s vs most of the cast. I'm going to put the frame data on the cancels off of his 50 50 strings, these are based off estimation and feel of how fast I can block a certain reversal.
Back 33 cancel us minus 7 or 8, I tried for about 5 minutes trying to block Cassies flip and I couldn't once the gun didn't even come out and my stamina bar went down right as I was getting hit.
F13 is minus 7. I'm almost positive on this one. I could block Cassies flip most of the time but once I tried reptiles ex slide it was the same problem with back 33.
Back 32 is around minus 4 to 5. You're able to block ex slide pretty easily but you're definitely not close to being able to poke or do anything besides block whatsoever. I could be wrong on these but I'm almost positive that the oh and back 33 are definitely at least minus 6. This is pretty big for Erron. Being safe on his mixups is new for him and generally a really good tool the other variations don't offer. You can just buffer armor anytime you see f13 and they need meter for back 32 to be safe. On top of marksmans safeness, he gets really good meter less damage with great corner carry averaging around 34 midscreen for no bar or 38 for no bar in the corner. 21122 cancel is around plus 1 or 2 as well so he doesn't always need meter to be plus off of certain things in marksman. This really makes his 21122 string much scarier I feel because if they think you're going to do 211 command grab you won't be able to hit confirm the rest of that in gunslinger (sometimes and definitely not in outlaw) but in marksman with the new buffs you can now do 21122 cancel into 21122 swing and get a full combo. Also baiting jump outs of 211 by doing 211 swing is good although it can be armored through or backdashed.
I personally think marksman might be better (you were right tweedy) he just takes more work than gunslinger, but I could be wrong. I'd like to see why others don't necessarily think marksman is as good as the others. Tell me below
Peace
-KHTC Jink
Let's talk about which one is simply put, better.
Gunslinger offers a variety of zoning options with stance 4, the two mid shots, stance 2 the double up shots that aa really well, and stance 3 the multiple low shots that can break armor much like stance 2. Gunslinger gets good meter less damage in the corner and has pretty good corner carry on his combos that lead into more zoning or pressure. The problem I find with it is that without meter he's generally unsafe much like outlaw. You can do f13 into low shots but I believe if they have fast enough armor they can armor through (if I'm wrong on that, they can always armor the last hit anyways) but I feel once it comes down to it, a good player will be able to read what you're going to do purely based off of reactions. If they don't see the low come out just poke, the stance 2 won't hit you if you poke, and stance 4 has a gap in the second hit up close. It's obviously not as cut and dry as that, but It seems like you're risking getting punished for not that big of a reward. I'm not too educated in gunslinger as in what strings into stance 3 can be armored through
If the armor is fast enough, so if I'm wrong on anything just tell me and I'll edit it or something like that.
Marksman is Erron Black's pressure/safe variation I feel. The zoning options he gets are pretty trash being that the mid shot is not good for anything (zoning wise) unless a last resort, due to its poor recovery and same with db1. They are just too slow to really lock down your opponent like gunslinger. However, marksman has a much scarier close up game with the relatively safe 50 50s vs most of the cast. I'm going to put the frame data on the cancels off of his 50 50 strings, these are based off estimation and feel of how fast I can block a certain reversal.
Back 33 cancel us minus 7 or 8, I tried for about 5 minutes trying to block Cassies flip and I couldn't once the gun didn't even come out and my stamina bar went down right as I was getting hit.
F13 is minus 7. I'm almost positive on this one. I could block Cassies flip most of the time but once I tried reptiles ex slide it was the same problem with back 33.
Back 32 is around minus 4 to 5. You're able to block ex slide pretty easily but you're definitely not close to being able to poke or do anything besides block whatsoever. I could be wrong on these but I'm almost positive that the oh and back 33 are definitely at least minus 6. This is pretty big for Erron. Being safe on his mixups is new for him and generally a really good tool the other variations don't offer. You can just buffer armor anytime you see f13 and they need meter for back 32 to be safe. On top of marksmans safeness, he gets really good meter less damage with great corner carry averaging around 34 midscreen for no bar or 38 for no bar in the corner. 21122 cancel is around plus 1 or 2 as well so he doesn't always need meter to be plus off of certain things in marksman. This really makes his 21122 string much scarier I feel because if they think you're going to do 211 command grab you won't be able to hit confirm the rest of that in gunslinger (sometimes and definitely not in outlaw) but in marksman with the new buffs you can now do 21122 cancel into 21122 swing and get a full combo. Also baiting jump outs of 211 by doing 211 swing is good although it can be armored through or backdashed.
I personally think marksman might be better (you were right tweedy) he just takes more work than gunslinger, but I could be wrong. I'd like to see why others don't necessarily think marksman is as good as the others. Tell me below
Peace
-KHTC Jink
