General/Other - Ermac Ermac General Discussion Thread Vol. 2(Normalized Edition)

[Error]

Due to the original gen discussion thread being dead and the game completely changing tomorrow, I wanted to start a fresh Ermac discussion thread.

Here are the patch changes to Ermac:

• Ermac - Force Port when done as a wakeup attack no longer has armor
• Ermac - Towards+BK now has 16 startup frames (up from 12), is -25 on block (down from -22), and does 5 damage (down from 7)
• Ermac - increased combo damage scaling on Force Lift & Tele-Lift
• Ermac - reduced the blockstun of Air Soul Blast by 10 frames and reduced the pushback
• Ermac - Up Soul Blast is now +22 on hit (down from +27)
• Ermac - Away+FP,BP is now +15 on hit (down from +23)
• Ermac (Mystic) - reduced the pushback on Levitate
• Ermac (Mystic) - fixed a bug where if Ermac was hit on a certain frame after connecting with Levitate, the life gain and meter drain could be active longer than intended
• Ermac (Mystic) - increased combo damage scaling on Tele-Hang, Tele-Hold, Tele-Choke, & Levitate
• Ermac (Master of Souls) - increased combo damage scaling on Soul Ball & Soul Trap
• Ermac (Spectral) - Spectral Charge now has 2 hits of armor
• Ermac (Spectral) - Force Port & Soul Blast while hovering no longer has armor

First thoughts, mystic lives, but I'm not sure where his damage will be post patch. Up soul blast being less + on hit may effect master of souls' corner ccombos.

Witholding thoughts on the forceport armor, while it was clutch a lot of armored launchers were hit.

 

[(un)balanced_kenshi]

i am really concerned about "Ermac - Away+FP,BP is now +15 on hit (down from +23)". Does this affect juggling aswell? Since up to four b1,2 are possible in some Ermac combos this could be a insane nerf, considering this is most likely Ermac's best string.

 

[Basic Stupidity]

Due to the original gen discussion thread being dead and the game completely changing tomorrow, I wanted to start a fresh Ermac discussion thread.

Here are the patch changes to Ermac:

• Ermac - Force Port when done as a wakeup attack no longer has armor
• Ermac - Towards+BK now has 16 startup frames (up from 12), is -25 on block (down from -22), and does 5 damage (down from 7)
• Ermac - increased combo damage scaling on Force Lift & Tele-Lift
• Ermac - reduced the blockstun of Air Soul Blast by 10 frames and reduced the pushback
• Ermac - Up Soul Blast is now +22 on hit (down from +27)
• Ermac - Away+FP,BP is now +15 on hit (down from +23)
• Ermac (Mystic) - reduced the pushback on Levitate
• Ermac (Mystic) - fixed a bug where if Ermac was hit on a certain frame after connecting with Levitate, the life gain and meter drain could be active longer than intended
• Ermac (Mystic) - increased combo damage scaling on Tele-Hang, Tele-Hold, Tele-Choke, & Levitate
• Ermac (Master of Souls) - increased combo damage scaling on Soul Ball & Soul Trap
• Ermac (Spectral) - Spectral Charge now has 2 hits of armor
• Ermac (Spectral) - Force Port & Soul Blast while hovering no longer has armor

First thoughts, mystic lives, but I'm not sure where his damage will be post patch. Up soul blast being less + on hit may effect master of souls' corner ccombos.

Witholding thoughts on the forceport armor, while it was clutch a lot of armored launchers were hit.

Rest in peace my spectral now. He got hit the hardest with these changes.

 

[mariano1234]

i hope i dont have to change characters again if it happens ill go back to kenshi

 

[mariano1234]

ermac boys stilla live

 

[Scott The Scot]

Universal nerf to armoured launchers + Spectral = a reaaaally good freaking character.

 

[Error]

i am really concerned about "Ermac - Away+FP,BP is now +15 on hit (down from +23)". Does this affect juggling aswell? Since up to four b1,2 are possible in some Ermac combos this could be a insane nerf, considering this is most likely Ermac's best string.

That could be an issue, I only thought of it affecting mos vortex but if it affects combos as well then mystic might take a big hit to his damage.

 

[Basic Stupidity]

Universal nerf to armoured launchers + Spectral = a reaaaally good freaking character.

he has nothing now man. he cant safely continue his pressure from his soul burst on hit now at fullscreen, his damage is nerfed, converting a string into hover made more difficult, doesn't have any options against armor now, soul blast his best tool is full combo punishable and has reduced push back now, no vortex in the corner anymore, and little to no pressure after soul blast on hit in the corner, and dont forget his overhead that is 16 FRAMES! and still has only 4 active frames. His entire game is ruined what could he possibly have now that would give him a chance over the other characters in the cast?

This is really upsetting considering how little he was used, how high he was in the tier list, and how some other characters that were much higher than him got nerfed significantly less. Its hard to believe man, wouldnt have expected my two characters (Spectral and Flame fist) to get hit this hard considering where they were on the tier list.

 

[BoromiRofGeo]

Ermac - Force Port when done as a wakeup attack no longer has armor

no armor on ex port means only soul blast as "get off me", well ok but it doesnt have 2 hits of armor and easily broken by half the cast with fast dual hitting moves.

Ermac - Towards+BK now has 16 startup frames (up from 12), is -25 on block (down from -22), and does 5 damage (down from 7)

doesnt matter. 16 frames is still unreactable. besides who the hell does only f4, you either do f4 into teleport or make it safe via full string f43

Ermac - increased combo damage scaling on Force Lift & Tele-Lift

does this mean after successfully catching enemy with lift, damage will be smaller (or higher?)

Ermac - reduced the blockstun of Air Soul Blast by 10 frames and reduced the pushback

does this mean, this is absolutely no longer viable and should be tossed in the trash bin?

Ermac - Up Soul Blast is now +22 on hit (down from +27)

doesnt matter

Ermac - Away+FP,BP is now +15 on hit (down from +23)

is +15 enough for vortex, or did paolo just castrate us?

Ermac (Mystic) - reduced the pushback on Levitate

i dont get this.

Ermac (Mystic) - fixed a bug where if Ermac was hit on a certain frame after connecting with Levitate, the life gain and meter drain could be active longer than intended

understandable, doesnt matter much.

Ermac (Mystic) - increased combo damage scaling on Tele-Hang, Tele-Hold, Tele-Choke, & Levitate

does this mean after successfully catching enemy with lift, damage will be smaller (or higher?)

Ermac (Master of Souls) - increased combo damage scaling on Soul Ball & Soul Trap

does this mean after successfully catching enemy with soul ball, damage will be smaller (or higher?)

Ermac (Spectral) - Spectral Charge now has 2 hits of armor

it means spectral is the only variation, that has full two hits of armor on special move. if vortex is truly gone, then spectral is most definitely ermacs current best variation.

Ermac (Spectral) - Force Port & Soul Blast while hovering no longer has armor

this is universal change, understandable.

 

[Scott The Scot]

Boromio, more scaling means less (lower) damage output.

 

[BoromiRofGeo]

Boromio, more scaling means less (lower) damage output.

lol man, mystic and spectral already struggled on mid screen damage wise, now they will be hitting like small ants lel, but maybe its not so bad, ill check the numbers in practice later.

 

[Basic Stupidity]

lol man, mystic and spectral already struggled on mid screen damage wise, now they will be hitting like small ants lel, but maybe its not so bad, ill check the numbers in practice later.

no spectral hit pretty hard midscreen meterless but every nerf hurt spectral 10 times more than it hurt mystic.

 

[BoromiRofGeo]

no spectral hit pretty hard midscreen meterless but every nerf hurt spectral 10 times more than it hurt mystic.

u mb right, i dunno much about spectral.
i know that mystic struggled with even 30% on midscreen (hro kahns standing 4 combos dont count), now it will be probably worse.

 

[Basic Stupidity]

u mb right, i dunno much about spectral.
i know that mystic struggled with even 30% on midscreen (hro kahns standing 4 combos dont count), now it will be probably worse.

mystics op ness got my spectral killed man

 

[BoromiRofGeo]

mystics op ness got my spectral killed man

can you elaborate, please?
i keep hearing how op mystic is, but no one seems to give me specific list of whys and hows, apart from "ex push is op".

 

[Basic Stupidity]

can you elaborate, please?
i keep hearing how op mystic is, but no one seems to give me specific list of whys and hows, apart from "ex push is op".

he had/has great 50/50s and had two safe armor wakeups (including his op push). he had great normals and strings and only really lacks a mid but the push essentially makes up for that.

 

[Ragnarök Tyr]

I can safely say for the time being Ermac is fine. Look at his entire character toolset. He still has the means of competing at high level.

 

[Ragnarök Tyr]

@BoromiRofGeo

My Mystic BnB punishes did roughly 34-41% mid screen depending on which normal I used to set them up with. Tele Push has one of the best if not the best Hit Boxes in the entire game, let alone the meter burn version which has 2 active hit boxes on activation.

I could go on a 'rant' about all the tools Ermac has, but I'm currently uploading a video with my initial reactions that will explain everything a bit better.

 

[BoromiRofGeo]

he had/has great 50/50s and had two safe armor wakeups (including his op push). he had great normals and strings and only really lacks a mid but the push essentially makes up for that.

well, allow me to disagree.
dvorah, kotal, sonya etc had good 50/50. ermac has only fair 50/50, which lead to either huge amount of damage and are punishable, or 10% and safe.
safe wake ups? which one? blast is punishable, ex tp is punishable, even with some characters ex push is punishable.
as a matter of fact, mid - is what ermac didnt lack, because f3 is one of the best mids in the game. fortunately it wasnt touched.

 

[BoromiRofGeo]

@BoromiRofGeo

My Mystic BnB punishes did roughly 34-41% mid screen depending on which normal I used to set them up with. Tele Push has one of the best if not the best Hit Boxes in the entire game, let alone the meter burn version which has 2 active hit boxes on activation.

I could go on a 'rant' about all the tools Ermac has, but I'm currently uploading a video with my initial reactions that will explain everything a bit better.

can you elaborate, please?
i keep hearing how op mystic is, but no one seems to give me specific list of whys and hows, apart from "ex push is op".

 

[Ragnarök Tyr]

No character punishes ex push as it stands now. The push back assures that. F43 is 12% into a knockdown off of a safe Overhead/Mid set up.

The only unsafe mix ups he has are B32 and B34 but honestly you don't really need to use those. You can chip an opponent away with B3, on block it's safe and on hit you can keep them guessing or bait the armor. Ermac is great when it comes to staggers, safe mix ups and keeping the opponent guessing all while controlling the neutral.

 

[BoromiRofGeo]

No character punishes ex push as it stands now. The push back assures that. F43 is 12% into a knockdown off of a safe Overhead/Mid set up.

The only unsafe mix ups he has are B32 and B34 but honestly you don't really need to use those. You can chip an opponent away with B3, on block it's safe and on hit you can keep them guessing or bait the armor. Ermac is great when it comes to staggers, safe mix ups and keeping the opponent guessing all while controlling the neutral.

bro im not saying you are wrong. but those 12% as uve said or those 10% as ive said f43 and b33 are not comparable imho to true devastating mix ups, this is why i personally consider them not bad at all, just fair. they're ok!
and as ive already said higher, ermac has opportunity to either commit and go for special after overhead or low, or stay safe and 10%. - totally fair.
i agree on staggers. and i love them. hope they will never touch them.

 

[Error]

no armor on ex port means only soul blast as "get off me", well ok but it doesnt have 2 hits of armor and easily broken by half the cast with fast dual hitting moves.

doesnt matter. 16 frames is still unreactable. besides who the hell does only f4, you either do f4 into teleport or make it safe via full string f43

does this mean after successfully catching enemy with lift, damage will be smaller (or higher?)
I believe it's a damage nerf
does this mean, this is absolutely no longer viable and should be tossed in the trash bin?
not sure

doesnt matter
no more 50% off of F4 for master of souls in the corner lol
is +15 enough for vortex, or did paolo just castrate us?
B3 and grab are still guaranteed, can armor out of F4
i dont get this.
Levitate is EX push, now it won't push enemy back on block
understandable, doesnt matter much.

does this mean after successfully catching enemy with lift, damage will be smaller (or higher?)
believe it's also a nerf
does this mean after successfully catching enemy with soul ball, damage will be smaller (or higher?)
same as above
it means spectral is the only variation, that has full two hits of armor on special move. if vortex is truly gone, then spectral is most definitely ermacs current best variation.

this is universal change, understandable.

replies in green

 

[Error]

u mb right, i dunno much about spectral.
i know that mystic struggled with even 30% on midscreen (hro kahns standing 4 combos dont count), now it will be probably worse.

With practice I could do 30-40% meterless depending on starter if it was a good connection, but if the B12 nerf affects juggles then Mystic damage might really take a hit

 

[Ragnarök Tyr]

Sorry for the lack of quality, but I was in a bit of a hurry. Anyway quick reactionary thoughts to Ermac currently.