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Emerald Defender Match-Up/Tech/Strategy Discussion

Espio

Kokomo
Wait. Cetrion a losing MU for Jade? Other way around. If the Jade can keep glow up all she has to do is look out for slow ass -35 tendrils.

I'd say it's 6-4 Jade or at worst 5-5
That's super meta level one. Glow activation is so negative that Cetrion can punish it full screen with tendrils and she can combo off of tendrils so it's not simply a check, it's a full on you will hold this and it will set the tone of how Jade is forced to fight her. What this means for the match up is every glow activation even full screen is risky versus her. This also means that Cetrion can still zone to a degree because Jade has to be constantly wary of being checked full screen and at full screen Jade can't do anything about it other than hope for a spark check but you likely recover to evade.

Jade's air glaive does little to deter Cetrion, spark is not hard for Cetrion to deal with since she has a teleport she can do in the air plus her air fire beam so every time she jumps is a nuanced guess. Due to Cetrion's mobility Jade zoning is not a pertinent concern for a well rounded, complete Cetrion.

Cetrion out damages her everywhere on the screen so she can open you up better and camp a life lead way harder than Jade can. Cetrion also has excellent buttons, down pokes and so forth. She handles Jade everywhere on the screen. Cetrion also doesn't have to invest a drop of meter to punish Jade's back 3,4,3,4 string. She can just flawless block it and then do a standing normal punish/convert of choice so she has more meter to convert on everything else she does.


It's certainly not 8-2, but Cetrion players really need to step it up if they think they're working hard or they lose in any way to Jade. Dragon and other Cetrions have Jade losing and it's not hard to believe considering how much Cetrion can do with her full screen combos, mobility, footsies and so forth.
 

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
That's super meta level one. Glow activation is so negative that Cetrion can punish it full screen with tendrils and she can combo off of tendrils so it's not simply a check, it's a full on you will hold this and it will set the tone of how Jade is forced to fight her. What this means for the match up is every glow activation even full screen is risky versus her. This also means that Cetrion can still zone to a degree because Jade has to be constantly wary of being checked full screen and at full screen Jade can't do anything about it other than hope for a spark check but you likely recover to evade.

Jade's air glaive does little to deter Cetrion, spark is not hard for Cetrion to deal with since she has a teleport she can do in the air plus her air fire beam so every time she jumps is a nuanced guess. Due to Cetrion's mobility Jade zoning is not a pertinent concern for a well rounded, complete Cetrion.

Cetrion out damages her everywhere on the screen so she can open you up better and camp a life lead way harder than Jade can. Cetrion also has excellent buttons, down pokes and so forth. She handles Jade everywhere on the screen. Cetrion also doesn't have to invest a drop of meter to punish Jade's back 3,4,3,4 string. She can just flawless block it and then do a standing normal punish/convert of choice so she has more meter to convert on everything else she does.


It's certainly not 8-2, but Cetrion players really need to step it up if they think they're working hard or they lose in any way to Jade. Dragon and other Cetrions have Jade losing and it's not hard to believe considering how much Cetrion can do with her full screen combos, mobility, footsies and so forth.
Fine it's 7-3 ;D

Thanks for breaking it down.
 

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
If you are gonna see one of these matchups as 8-2 then you might as well just put the controller down because you'll never win with that attitude. Obviously we're dealing with subjectivity when it comes to matchup numbers but when I picture 8-2 I'm picturing some Zod vs Lex shit, the dumpster vs Sinestro or Sagat just spamming fireballs in classic SF
Know that feeling when you only have limited options and even those options are unsafe, suboptimal and deal a fraction of the damage that you are dealt for each of your mistakes?
Pretty sure that's a 8-2 or a 7-3 at best.
 

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
Know that feeling when you only have limited options and even those options are unsafe, suboptimal and deal a fraction of the damage that you are dealt for each of your mistakes?
Pretty sure that's a 8-2 or a 7-3 at best.
I played thousands of matches with Drunken Master Bo' Rai Cho in MKX who had terrible matchups and I'm not confident enough to say any of his matchups are 8-2. Jade is leagues ahead of that character in her game. TBH 8-2's just come off like you are overvaluing your personal skill
 

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
I played thousands of matches with Drunken Master Bo' Rai Cho in MKX who had terrible matchups and I'm not confident enough to say any of his matchups are 8-2. Jade is leagues ahead of that character in her game. TBH 8-2's just come off like you are overvaluing your personal skill
So you played thousands of matches with unrelated character and you don't want to write down his matchups and because of that I shouldn't write down matchups either because I suck.
Okay.

Sounds pretty much like you're the one overvaluing yourself, trying to tell me I can't have an opinion because you think I suck, and somehow think that you're teaching me something incredibly new and relevant by basically saying this is probably not the final matchup number.
It surely isn't, there will be patches and the game evolves.

I have thousands of matches with Jade at this point, namely over three thousand. Three times this much and I'll be a super saiyan.
Not that you need any specific number of matches to look at two characters' frame data, lab them, play for a bit and make a wild guess based on your experience.
That's how people figure matchups usually.
And then those numbers change.

TYM, though.
TYM doesn't change.
 
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Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
So you played thousands of matches with unrelated character and you don't want to write down his matchups and because of that I shouldn't write down matchups either because I suck.
Okay.

Sounds pretty much like you're the one overvaluing yourself, trying to tell me I can't have an opinion because you think I suck, and somehow think that you're teaching me something incredibly new and relevant by basically saying this is probably not the final matchup number.
It surely isn't, there will be patches and the game evolves.

I have thousands of matches with Jade at this point, namely over three thousand. Three times this much and I'll be a super saiyan.
Not that you need any specific number of matches to look at two characters' frame data, lab them, play for a bit and make a wild guess based on your experience.
That's how people figure matchups usually.
And then those numbers change.

TYM, though.
TYM doesn't change.
Nah I'm just telling you that 8-2 is a crazy number
 

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
Nah I'm just telling you that 8-2 is a crazy number
And I'm telling you how Kabal destroys Jade. You don't have to take my word for it, you can just go into training mode and see for yourself.
He has a better midscreen game with a faster mid that leads to more damage and setups with nomad dash, he has the same zoning except nomad dash punishes glow and on top of the same range, same zoning, better damage, better normals, he's also safer by far.
 

Blewdew

PSN: MaxKayX3
And I'm telling you how Kabal destroys Jade. You don't have to take my word for it, you can just go into training mode and see for yourself.
He has a better midscreen game with a faster mid that leads to more damage and setups with nomad dash, he has the same zoning except nomad dash punishes glow and on top of the same range, same zoning, better damage, better normals, he's also safer by far.
Pretty much everyone beside you agrees that it‘s a 5-5 or even in jades advantage.
Nomad dash does NOT punish glow, it‘s a hard read and extremely risky to do. That‘s like saying kabal can punish every projectile in the game.
Jade can successfully zone kabal until he gets in through being patient, he‘s not the ultimately amazing anti zoner. On close range he is better than jade but he has to take a lot of projectiles on his way. if he sets the pacing of the match you‘re just simply not playing the matchup right.
I mean at this point your opinion is just a meme but this is just plain dumb shit you‘re saying. I can tell that you probably just got mopped by a kabal like one time and you were like „yep, that‘s a 2-8 for jade totally not my fault that I lost it‘s my characters fault“
 

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
Pretty much everyone beside you agrees that it‘s a 5-5 or even in jades advantage.
Appeal to anecdotal crowd, nice.
I don't need a crowd backing my opinion, I can just go into training mode and replicate all the issues in this matchup that proves it isn't a good matchup for Jade.

Nomad dash does NOT punish glow, it‘s a hard read and extremely risky to do. That‘s like saying kabal can punish every projectile in the game.
It's simple math. But you don't even need to look at frame data. Go to training mode, have Jade activate glow and then block. Try to punish it with Nomad Dash.


Jade can successfully zone kabal until he gets in through being patient, he‘s not the ultimately amazing anti zoner.
Jade cannot successfully zone anyone in this game because everyone either has an anti-zoning tool (teleporters for example) or better zoning (Cetrion, Skarlet for example). Or even just zoning tools that ignore the 56f glow. Jade can successfully apply zoning as a part of her game plan but currently her Air Glaive is such a mandatory tool in her game plan that the rest of her kit is massively flawed and she lacks in tools that actually matter.
This is not injustice 2, zoning isn't compelling here unless you have tools like Cetrion, Skarlet, or Cassie (then again Cassie isn't a zoner, her low gunshot is just a better zoning tool than most things Jade has other than air glaive lmao)

On close range he is better than jade but he has to take a lot of projectiles on his way.
He doesn't have to take a lot of projectiles, he can duck, block and walk in, reacting to her only launcher which is the worst normal in the game.


if he sets the pacing of the match you‘re just simply not playing the matchup right.
I mean at this point your opinion is just a meme but this is just plain dumb shit you‘re saying. I can tell that you probably just got mopped by a kabal like one time and you were like „yep, that‘s a 2-8 for jade totally not my fault that I lost it‘s my characters fault“
Or maybe you're factually wrong on everything you say and I labbed the matchup, that's also an option.
The more likely one, after all the nonsense you spewed and then even had to get disrespectful.
 

wsj515

This is my billionth life cycle.
And this is why people "gang up" on Glortor. We give him the opportunity to explain himself and validate his opinions, but he doesn't back anything up and when people respond with valid criticisms and constructive points towards the conversation, he just goes "nope, anecdotal" or any other ridiculous cop out answer. The guy's head lives in training mode where fighting games are not played, and even then doesn't understand simple game mechanics like how throws work.

Its always funny to see when someone like Espio comes in to regulate and says real shit, Glortor runs with his tail between his legs to kowtow and say, "yes of course you are right" but will then try and twist the regulators words to push his own agenda. 3-7 in Cetrions favor is still an absurd number.
 

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
And this is why people "gang up" on Glortor. We give him the opportunity to explain himself and validate his opinions, but he doesn't back anything up and when people respond with valid criticisms and constructive points towards the conversation, he just goes "nope, anecdotal" or any other ridiculous cop out answer. The guy's head lives in training mode where fighting games are not played, and even then doesn't understand simple game mechanics like how throws work.

Its always funny to see when someone like Espio comes in to regulate and says real shit, Glortor runs with his tail between his legs to kowtow and say, "yes of course you are right" but will then try and twist the regulators words to push his own agenda. 3-7 in Cetrions favor is still an absurd number.
This is why exactly why I told dude to mind his business because of shit like that lol. Guess he wanted to feel special
 

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
And this is why people "gang up" on Glortor.
No, it's because it's like a class act to gang up on someone who advocates upplayed low-mid tier characters and this is why people like @THTB don't really post when they know what's going on with a character but rather not put up with the Nerfmafia. This attitude that if you disagree you automatically need to "gang up". This website has this hostile air about it where you and like five other people get on people's case if they have an opinion you don't deign to endorse in your excellence of unfaltering complete omniscience.

We give him the opportunity to explain himself
I feel so blessed.

and validate his opinions, but he doesn't back anything up and when people respond with valid criticisms and constructive points towards the conversation, he just goes "nope, anecdotal" or any other ridiculous cop out answer.
Your standards and comprehension in that department are left heavily wanting, friendo.

The guy's head lives in training mode where fighting games are not played, and even then doesn't understand simple game mechanics like how throws work.
Yes, I'm sorry for labbing this game and pointing out shit that none of you sat down to check because you were stuck on "Oh but KP and Waz" and when Jade got literally steamrolled on your screen everybody just turned a blind eye and forgot to wail on.

What about throws do I not understand? Or are you referring to the fact that I find it appalling that high throws grab you out of crouching moves? See how many high level players of other, actual respected fighting game communities have called that complete nonsense and sit on your mouth.

Its always funny to see when someone like Espio comes in to regulate and says real shit, Glortor runs with his tail between his legs to kowtow and say, "yes of course you are right"
@Espio how many times did I disagree with you about Jade so far? Can we just stop for a moment here, seriously, and appreciate how this clown is literally attacking me on a personal level by trying to say that I bow to someone's opinion just because it's a mod? lmfao

but will then try and twist the regulators words to push his own agenda. 3-7 in Cetrions favor is still an absurd number.
At least I have a number to it. I'm not going to sit here and wait for NRS to overlook Jade again and this character end up struggling uphill against not two thirds of the cast but every single character.

I was right about mk9 Jade, I was right about MKX Kitana at the start, I was right about Tanya's nerfs making her a shit tier character as @xKhaoTik himself admitted earlier in his own thread, (except forgetting that I was right, again) and when on PC Ranked everyone was playing Black Adam and Supergirl and I was struggling with Starfire and posted that I think she's not that great suddenly being wrong about one character is a good reason for people to say shit like:

This is why exactly why I told dude to mind his business because of shit like that lol. Guess he wanted to feel special
This is exactly why nobody that matters posts on this site anymore.
 

Arqwart

D'Vorah for KP2 copium
Note 1: Everything in quotations below is from @Blewdew. Everything else in the quote boxes is @GLoRToR.
Note 2: I'm under the assumption that the Jade in this case is ED while Kabal is using either variation since it isn't specified. As such, only his base kit is being considered.
Note 3: I main both Kabal (Clean Cut) and Jade (Emerald Defender), having plenty of experience on both ends of this matchup. I'll be speaking to my experiences here and trying to give both sides.


"Nomad dash does NOT punish glow, it‘s a hard read and extremely risky to do. That‘s like saying kabal can punish every projectile in the game."

It's simple math. But you don't even need to look at frame data. Go to training mode, have Jade activate glow and then block. Try to punish it with Nomad Dash.
As @wsj515 has said, training mode is inconsequential here; but I'll address the point anyway.
Full screen: has to be a read by Kabal to land, running the risk of eating ~20%, a knockback, a throw to switch sides, etc. The world is Jade's oyster if she successfully baits the Dash.
Far: punishable on a nigh-perfect timing the instant Jade begins to raise her hand. Still much too risky for Kabal to be tossing out willy nilly, though can be useful if Jade isn't being careful on Glows.
Mid: decently punishable, but ranges from relatively simple to tight read depending on range.
Close: lol Jade, what is you doin honeyboo. Kabal can just smash your face in, no nomad dash needed.

Another key point is that Kabal's standing projectile startup is slow enough that Jade can easily Glow on reaction if she's mid screen away or further. Kabal has NO other animations that are even slightly similar at that distance, and the Glow isn't punishable at mid screen away or further if the Kabal tries to by sneaky by tossing out a S1 to bait Glow then following with Nomad Dash. If Kabal jumps, you can also immediately Glow through Kabal doing an air projectile if you read it, though this is more dangerous as he can instead opt for a jump-in attack. The issue is that Kabal jumping at Jade is a dumb idea considering her many anti-air options, but that's another area with which they can both mix it up as needed. This means that Kabal must respect the threat of Glow at all times, forcing the two into a dance of bait and switch on Nomad Dash, projectiles, Glow, and anti-airs (for jump projectile or jump-in). I'd argue that Jade wins this dance as the success of a single Glow activation means she gets to zone, which leads to the next point...

"Jade can successfully zone kabal until he gets in through being patient, he‘s not the ultimately amazing anti zoner."

Jade cannot successfully zone anyone in this game because everyone either has an anti-zoning tool (teleporters for example) or better zoning (Cetrion, Skarlet for example). Or even just zoning tools that ignore the 56f glow. Jade can successfully apply zoning as a part of her game plan but currently her Air Glaive is such a mandatory tool in her game plan that the rest of her kit is massively flawed and she lacks in tools that actually matter.
This is not injustice 2, zoning isn't compelling here unless you have tools like Cetrion, Skarlet, or Cassie (then again Cassie isn't a zoner, her low gunshot is just a better zoning tool than most things Jade has other than air glaive lmao)
All strikethrough items are discarded as they are irrelevant to the matchup being discussed, adding nothing useful to the debate.
In the case of zoning against Kabal, the "good" tactic for Jade to utilize is mixing her 4 available projectiles to keep Kabal on his toes while keeping distance yet not backing herself into the corner too much. I'd argue that Jade can "successfully" zone Kabal in this case because Kabal can't be trying to contest projectiles with his own due to the threat of Glow (see prior point). Kabal now has to deal with the slog of slowly approaching Jade safely or risking Nomad Dash reads on Glow. The issue here is...

"On close range he is better than jade but he has to take a lot of projectiles on his way."

He doesn't have to take a lot of projectiles, he can duck, block and walk in, reacting to her only launcher which is the worst normal in the game.
I agree with Glortor to some extent as Jade's projectiles are pretty reactable by a patient player, especially at far ranges. Mind games of staggering projectiles aside, Kabal needs only to just.. walk his way in while avoiding all that's coming his way. The issue here is that now Kabal leaves himself vulnerable to B2, D4, B1 / B12, F2, and Nitro Kick at a minimum once he's reached his destination. Jade risks a good bit on many of these options, but she can also optimize her selection based on distance. Kabal must now be mindful of all Jade's projectiles AND her poke options, though this generally just means he needs to neutral duck regularly and block on reaction for F2, B1, and D4 which isn't too difficult. The main threat is when Jade decides to stand her ground, forcing Kabal to have to make a move and take a risk.

Depending on proximity, Kabal is close to (if not at the point of) being able to check Jade with B1 and dashing in to D4. It's risky as he could eat a wild poke; but on the flip side, Jade must now choose very carefully what options she utilizes to keep Kabal at bay as multiple are punishable on block or whiff. A sudden projectile from Kabal, air or ground, can also be useful this close as Jade can't really Glow on reaction at this distance. The key here is that once Kabal successfully gets in on Jade, he has much better close tools than her so he needs to do everything he can to stay close and abuse that advantage.

It's hard to say who "wins" this dance when both players are patient because there's also the magical option of... nothing. Simple waiting and reacting. It's a very complicated situation, but I feel Jade barely squeezes out the advantage just by virtue of forcing Kabal to take risks and potentially some projectile hits/chip. Once Kabal gets in and manages to stick to Jade, however, the scales tip slightly in his favor.


The key thing to this matchup is that neither Kabal nor Jade gets to just trounce all over the other. Their respective tools work as a counterbalance against each other's, forcing each to attempt to keep the flow (and distance) at their respective advantage. Each player has to be mindful of their choices at all times because nothing is risk free due to each other's options.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
I don't post because I'm not really playing much atm lol.

To iterate on my opinion, Jade is mega middle of the road IMO. She's one of the worst characters without a life lead, and playing her in neutral can be pretty wack depending on the character she's against. She needs a few things, and then she's fine, though.
 

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
Note 1: Everything in quotations below is from @Blewdew. Everything else in the quote boxes is @GLoRToR.
Note 2: I'm under the assumption that the Jade in this case is ED while Kabal is using either variation since it isn't specified. As such, only his base kit is being considered.
Note 3: I main both Kabal (Clean Cut) and Jade (Emerald Defender), having plenty of experience on both ends of this matchup. I'll be speaking to my experiences here and trying to give both sides.


As @wsj515 has said, training mode is inconsequential here; but I'll address the point anyway.

Full screen: has to be a read by Kabal to land, running the risk of eating ~20%, a knockback, a throw to switch sides, etc. The world is Jade's oyster if she successfully baits the Dash.
Far: punishable on a nigh-perfect timing the instant Jade begins to raise her hand. Still much too risky for Kabal to be tossing out willy nilly, though can be useful if Jade isn't being careful on Glows.
Mid: decently punishable, but ranges from relatively simple to tight read depending on range.
Close: lol Jade, what is you doin honeyboo. Kabal can just smash your face in, no nomad dash needed.

Another key point is that Kabal's standing projectile startup is slow enough that Jade can easily Glow on reaction if she's mid screen away or further. Kabal has NO other animations that are even slightly similar at that distance, and the Glow isn't punishable at mid screen away or further if the Kabal tries to by sneaky by tossing out a S1 to bait Glow then following with Nomad Dash. If Kabal jumps, you can also immediately Glow through Kabal doing an air projectile if you read it, though this is more dangerous as he can instead opt for a jump-in attack. The issue is that Kabal jumping at Jade is a dumb idea considering her many anti-air options, but that's another area with which they can both mix it up as needed. This means that Kabal must respect the threat of Glow at all times, forcing the two into a dance of bait and switch on Nomad Dash, projectiles, Glow, and anti-airs (for jump projectile or jump-in). I'd argue that Jade wins this dance as the success of a single Glow activation means she gets to zone, which leads to the next point...


All strikethrough items are discarded as they are irrelevant to the matchup being discussed, adding nothing useful to the debate.
In the case of zoning against Kabal, the "good" tactic for Jade to utilize is mixing her 4 available projectiles to keep Kabal on his toes while keeping distance yet not backing herself into the corner too much. I'd argue that Jade can "successfully" zone Kabal in this case because Kabal can't be trying to contest projectiles with his own due to the threat of Glow (see prior point). Kabal now has to deal with the slog of slowly approaching Jade safely or risking Nomad Dash reads on Glow. The issue here is...


I agree with Glortor to some extent as Jade's projectiles are pretty reactable by a patient player, especially at far ranges. Mind games of staggering projectiles aside, Kabal needs only to just.. walk his way in while avoiding all that's coming his way. The issue here is that now Kabal leaves himself vulnerable to B2, D4, B1 / B12, F2, and Nitro Kick at a minimum once he's reached his destination. Jade risks a good bit on many of these options, but she can also optimize her selection based on distance. Kabal must now be mindful of all Jade's projectiles AND her poke options, though this generally just means he needs to neutral duck regularly and block on reaction for F2, B1, and D4 which isn't too difficult. The main threat is when Jade decides to stand her ground, forcing Kabal to have to make a move and take a risk.

Depending on proximity, Kabal is close to (if not at the point of) being able to check Jade with B1 and dashing in to D4. It's risky as he could eat a wild poke; but on the flip side, Jade must now choose very carefully what options she utilizes to keep Kabal at bay as multiple are punishable on block or whiff. A sudden projectile from Kabal, air or ground, can also be useful this close as Jade can't really Glow on reaction at this distance. The key here is that once Kabal successfully gets in on Jade, he has much better close tools than her so he needs to do everything he can to stay close and abuse that advantage.

It's hard to say who "wins" this dance when both players are patient because there's also the magical option of... nothing. Simple waiting and reacting. It's a very complicated situation, but I feel Jade barely squeezes out the advantage just by virtue of forcing Kabal to take risks and potentially some projectile hits/chip. Once Kabal gets in and manages to stick to Jade, however, the scales tip slightly in his favor.


The key thing to this matchup is that neither Kabal nor Jade gets to just trounce all over the other. Their respective tools work as a counterbalance against each other's, forcing each to attempt to keep the flow (and distance) at their respective advantage. Each player has to be mindful of their choices at all times because nothing is risk free due to each other's options.
This is mostly true and I appreciate that you wrote all of this down.

You missed one valid point, though:
Kabal leaves himself vulnerable to B2, D4, B1 / B12, F2, and Nitro Kick at a minimum once he's reached his destination.
None of these lead to anything except for F2 but vulnerable to F2, really? Who? When? MK9 bosses after a special move lol. The damage on most of these moves is little more than chip and Kabal can read correctly and gain ground as Jade will be negative on block and will have to contend with

Kabal's all inclusive single fast far reaching mid into more damage than she can do off of her useless 28f launcher.

And the microphone was dropped right good.
 

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
I don't post because I'm not really playing much atm lol.

To iterate on my opinion, Jade is mega middle of the road IMO. She's one of the worst characters without a life lead, and playing her in neutral can be pretty wack depending on the character she's against. She needs a few things, and then she's fine, though.
Nice seeing you on. Gotta chat at some point.
When do you get off work?
 

seanpon

Noob
This is why exactly why I told dude to mind his business because of shit like that lol. Guess he wanted to feel special
You only came hear to be toxic and add nothing at all to the discussion. I literally have no clue who you are or care, but your the one that came here responding to me out of the blue. Mind your own business. I merely told people to stop ganging up on Glortor, and then you decide to attack me with some corny phrases like "Captain Save a Ho"....
 

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
You only came hear to be toxic and add nothing at all to the discussion. I literally have no clue who you are or care, but your the one that came here responding to me out of the blue. Mind your own business. I merely told people to stop ganging up on Glortor, and then you decide to attack me with some corny phrases like "Captain Save a Ho"....
I’m not asking for you to know who I am nor do I care if you know who I am so idk why you decided to throw that out there lol
 

seanpon

Noob
I’m not asking for you to know who I am nor do I care if you know who I am so idk why you decided to throw that out there lol
I don't know why or care that you insulted me out of know where anymore, but I hate seeing that ugly ass profile pic. Just stop mentioning me like you did up above
 

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
You only came hear to be toxic and add nothing at all to the discussion. I literally have no clue who you are or care, but your the one that came here responding to me out of the blue. Mind your own business. I merely told people to stop ganging up on Glortor, and then you decide to attack me with some corny phrases like "Captain Save a Ho"....
Listen, I really appreciate you standing up for me because not a lot of people do that. I'm controversial at best, mostly just hated and I revel in it. I really don't need you fighting for me even if it feels great and I really thank you.
Please don't attack @xKhaoTik and get personal, this type of hateful attitude is exactly what I'm trying to stop to begin with.
Guy's kinda handsome anyway.

Block me bruh!
You as well, please quit it.
 

Arqwart

D'Vorah for KP2 copium
This is mostly true and I appreciate that you wrote all of this down.

You missed one valid point, though:

None of these lead to anything except for F2 but vulnerable to F2, really? Who? When? MK9 bosses after a special move lol. The damage on most of these moves is little more than chip and Kabal can read correctly and gain ground as Jade will be negative on block and will have to contend with

Kabal's all inclusive single fast far reaching mid into more damage than she can do off of her useless 28f launcher.

And the microphone was dropped right good.
It's not about leading to high damage for Jade in this matchup. It's about keeping the Kabal in check and at whatever distance suites the scenario to whittle away at his life bar. Focusing entirely on what damage she does or does not get detracts from the true focus of her game plan here which is to poke, zone, and keep her distance. Close range gameplay here is more a response to if Kabal gets in.

I 100% agree her piddly damage output is infuriating to have when this game plan falls through, but Kabal ain't got the same sticking power or advancing ability as other characters so it's not as egregious an issue as you play it off to be. Outside of Jade getting caught taking poor risks or Kabal making good reads, Jade should not be letting herself get stuck in long strings often. Sure Kabal will catch Jade here or there, but Jade also does the same to him which typically results in the Kabal advancing process repeating. This matchup is heavily zone / poke based and, in my experience, frequently results in time out victories on either side.

Also, the F2 usage I mentioned is more a check at long range that can be used and followed up with a Glaive for some safety, NOT for combo potential, and it's not meant to be used exclusively. As I said, Jade has multiple checks in the neutral against Kabal based on distance. F2 is definitely one of them and can be a threat if used smartly and sparingly.

I feel you put way too much stock into the raw numbers as opposed to the real flow of how the characters interact with each other during a match. Kabal isnt always going to read Glows and stick to Jade to force pressure. Jade isnt always going to keep Kabal out efficiently and force Kabal to be risky.

5-5 dance.
 

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
It's not about leading to high damage for Jade in this matchup. It's about keeping the Kabal in check and at whatever distance suites the scenario to whittle away at his life bar. Focusing entirely on what damage she does or does not get detracts from the true focus of her game plan here which is to poke, zone, and keep her distance. Close range gameplay here is more a response to if Kabal gets in.

I 100% agree her piddly damage output is infuriating to have when this game plan falls through, but Kabal ain't got the same sticking power or advancing ability as other characters so it's not as egregious an issue as you play it off to be. Outside of Jade getting caught taking poor risks or Kabal making good reads, Jade should not be letting herself get stuck in long strings often. Sure Kabal will catch Jade here or there, but Jade also does the same to him which typically results in the Kabal advancing process repeating. This matchup is heavily zone / poke based and, in my experience, frequently results in time out victories on either side.

Also, the F2 usage I mentioned is more a check at long range that can be used and followed up with a Glaive for some safety, NOT for combo potential, and it's not meant to be used exclusively. As I said, Jade has multiple checks in the neutral against Kabal based on distance. F2 is definitely one of them and can be a threat if used smartly and sparingly.

I feel you put way too much stock into the raw numbers as opposed to the real flow of how the characters interact with each other during a match. Kabal isnt always going to read Glows and stick to Jade to force pressure. Jade isnt always going to keep Kabal out efficiently and force Kabal to be risky.

5-5 dance.
I feel like we both have our own opinions and that's how it should be.
Agree to disagree here.
I think Kabal wins this, for the above reasons, you think it's equal. Time will tell anyway.
 

wsj515

This is my billionth life cycle.
I feel like we both have our own opinions and that's how it should be.
Agree to disagree here.
I think Kabal wins this, for the above reasons, you think it's equal. Time will tell anyway.
So you, who believes the matchup is 2-8, are not going to try and refute any of Arqwarts arguments for the matchup being 5-5, other than just saying Jade does less punish damage? Don't you see how this is exactly what we mean? That is such an absurd gap in opinion, one of you two is blatantly missing something about the matchup. And I think I know who it is.