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Emerald Defender Match-Up/Tech/Strategy Discussion

Blewdew

PSN: MaxKayX3
Note 1: Everything in quotations below is from @Blewdew. Everything else in the quote boxes is @GLoRToR.
Note 2: I'm under the assumption that the Jade in this case is ED while Kabal is using either variation since it isn't specified. As such, only his base kit is being considered.
Note 3: I main both Kabal (Clean Cut) and Jade (Emerald Defender), having plenty of experience on both ends of this matchup. I'll be speaking to my experiences here and trying to give both sides.


As @wsj515 has said, training mode is inconsequential here; but I'll address the point anyway.

Full screen: has to be a read by Kabal to land, running the risk of eating ~20%, a knockback, a throw to switch sides, etc. The world is Jade's oyster if she successfully baits the Dash.
Far: punishable on a nigh-perfect timing the instant Jade begins to raise her hand. Still much too risky for Kabal to be tossing out willy nilly, though can be useful if Jade isn't being careful on Glows.
Mid: decently punishable, but ranges from relatively simple to tight read depending on range.
Close: lol Jade, what is you doin honeyboo. Kabal can just smash your face in, no nomad dash needed.

Another key point is that Kabal's standing projectile startup is slow enough that Jade can easily Glow on reaction if she's mid screen away or further. Kabal has NO other animations that are even slightly similar at that distance, and the Glow isn't punishable at mid screen away or further if the Kabal tries to by sneaky by tossing out a S1 to bait Glow then following with Nomad Dash. If Kabal jumps, you can also immediately Glow through Kabal doing an air projectile if you read it, though this is more dangerous as he can instead opt for a jump-in attack. The issue is that Kabal jumping at Jade is a dumb idea considering her many anti-air options, but that's another area with which they can both mix it up as needed. This means that Kabal must respect the threat of Glow at all times, forcing the two into a dance of bait and switch on Nomad Dash, projectiles, Glow, and anti-airs (for jump projectile or jump-in). I'd argue that Jade wins this dance as the success of a single Glow activation means she gets to zone, which leads to the next point...


All strikethrough items are discarded as they are irrelevant to the matchup being discussed, adding nothing useful to the debate.
In the case of zoning against Kabal, the "good" tactic for Jade to utilize is mixing her 4 available projectiles to keep Kabal on his toes while keeping distance yet not backing herself into the corner too much. I'd argue that Jade can "successfully" zone Kabal in this case because Kabal can't be trying to contest projectiles with his own due to the threat of Glow (see prior point). Kabal now has to deal with the slog of slowly approaching Jade safely or risking Nomad Dash reads on Glow. The issue here is...


I agree with Glortor to some extent as Jade's projectiles are pretty reactable by a patient player, especially at far ranges. Mind games of staggering projectiles aside, Kabal needs only to just.. walk his way in while avoiding all that's coming his way. The issue here is that now Kabal leaves himself vulnerable to B2, D4, B1 / B12, F2, and Nitro Kick at a minimum once he's reached his destination. Jade risks a good bit on many of these options, but she can also optimize her selection based on distance. Kabal must now be mindful of all Jade's projectiles AND her poke options, though this generally just means he needs to neutral duck regularly and block on reaction for F2, B1, and D4 which isn't too difficult. The main threat is when Jade decides to stand her ground, forcing Kabal to have to make a move and take a risk.

Depending on proximity, Kabal is close to (if not at the point of) being able to check Jade with B1 and dashing in to D4. It's risky as he could eat a wild poke; but on the flip side, Jade must now choose very carefully what options she utilizes to keep Kabal at bay as multiple are punishable on block or whiff. A sudden projectile from Kabal, air or ground, can also be useful this close as Jade can't really Glow on reaction at this distance. The key here is that once Kabal successfully gets in on Jade, he has much better close tools than her so he needs to do everything he can to stay close and abuse that advantage.

It's hard to say who "wins" this dance when both players are patient because there's also the magical option of... nothing. Simple waiting and reacting. It's a very complicated situation, but I feel Jade barely squeezes out the advantage just by virtue of forcing Kabal to take risks and potentially some projectile hits/chip. Once Kabal gets in and manages to stick to Jade, however, the scales tip slightly in his favor.


The key thing to this matchup is that neither Kabal nor Jade gets to just trounce all over the other. Their respective tools work as a counterbalance against each other's, forcing each to attempt to keep the flow (and distance) at their respective advantage. Each player has to be mindful of their choices at all times because nothing is risk free due to each other's options.
You pretty much described the matchup perfectly. 8-2 would intent that kabal as a character completely carries the player and it‘s almost unwinnable for jade like ever. But it‘s not like that. Both characters have to work hard to get the win. Kabal isn‘t overwhelming jade nor is jade doing this to him. It feels like such a controversial matchup, there are a lot of people who have this matchup between 6-4 and 4-6 and they all have valid points.

@GLoRToR I apologie for talking you down this much. Though you have to think about what makes a matchup a 2-8 and if this applies to the kabal and jade matchup, which it doesn‘t. Everything above 4-6 is more than a slight advantage and 2-8 is just pure domination. Jade can and should zone kabal as long as possible, jade is one of the few characters that doesn‘t have to worry about diagonal airsaw so she should make the best out of it. Fullscreen kabal can‘t do anything beside making a super risky ND read. If he manages to get in it‘s business time for him so try to get him fullscreen again.
 

TakeAChance

TYM White Knight
I play Kabal and Jade.

Most matches I see here goes, Jade will get the life lead by zoning and playing keep away. Kabal will be chipping at her and walking her down as best he can. Jade looks like she controls the neutral in most aspects...then Kabal gets his Fatal blow. Now Jade can't do anything from full screen or midscreen or she eats the fatal blow...

I'll gladly walk down a jade and chase the entire match just to get that fatal blow...because by that point it's usually a touch into 40+ percent guaranteed.
 

Hot_DNA

Noob
Maybe due to my skill level.. Demi-god/god level...I feel extremely confident playing against Kabals.. I win 70% of my matches against him
 

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
Thats not how it should be, thats how YOU want it to be. You just seeking for attention, you uninstalled the game a long time ago but yet you are here wasting others ppl time talking about someting you dont know shit about.
Its ppl like you that make top players get away from this site together with all the ppl who hate this game but yet keep coming back to remind us that they dont like the game.
Im about done with this site too. Its just a fucking waste of time theres barely any tech here anyway only complains.
I tried to remain civil with you but you seem incapable of it.
This is the last response you'll see from me.

Go see a doctor.
 

Arqwart

D'Vorah for KP2 copium
I play Kabal and Jade.

Most matches I see here goes, Jade will get the life lead by zoning and playing keep away. Kabal will be chipping at her and walking her down as best he can. Jade looks like she controls the neutral in most aspects...then Kabal gets his Fatal blow. Now Jade can't do anything from full screen or midscreen or she eats the fatal blow...

I'll gladly walk down a jade and chase the entire match just to get that fatal blow...because by that point it's usually a touch into 40+ percent guaranteed.
That's the thing, though. If a Jade has the life lead and Kabal is at FB life, why the hell would a Jade continue throwing stuff out? Just wait him out and threaten the clock. As I said before, this is the power Jade has: forcing Kabal to act and take risks.

That doesnt detract from the "1 touch = 40%+" but it's still a notable item to consider. Jade doesnt HAVE to take any risks at this point. The real issue is when Jade doesnt have the life lead and Kabal has his FB. Suddenly, the tables are turned and Kabal gets to wait out Jade being risky.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
Kabal-Jade is definitely even most likely. If anyone has advantage, it's Jade.

Jade with a life lead in the matchup (like, 2-3 projectiles worth), until Kabal gets FB, is a chore for Kabal to deal with, because now she really doesn't have to play in his normal ranges. And the mere fact that punishing glow is not really that reactionary, while using glow to avoid projectiles is very much so, it really changes the control tide. When Kabal has a life lead, it's standard "I'm up on life vs Jade" state of affairs, but I think it's harder for him to cleanly get there. And FB is mainly a threat if it nets a significant life lead in the point round, or wins a game...otherwise as a Jade player, you should be daring them to use it as early as possible, because giving up the threat is not in Kabal's favor in the long run. On top of this, Jade moves out of range of Kabal's better normals fairly easily thanks to her backwards movement being so good + d4, so being up close isn't a total wash.
 

TakeAChance

TYM White Knight
Kabal-Jade is definitely even most likely. If anyone has advantage, it's Jade.

Jade with a life lead in the matchup (like, 2-3 projectiles worth), until Kabal gets FB, is a chore for Kabal to deal with, because now she really doesn't have to play in his normal ranges. And the mere fact that punishing glow is not really that reactionary, while using glow to avoid projectiles is very much so, it really changes the control tide. When Kabal has a life lead, it's standard "I'm up on life vs Jade" state of affairs, but I think it's harder for him to cleanly get there. And FB is mainly a threat if it nets a significant life lead in the point round, or wins a game...otherwise as a Jade player, you should be daring them to use it as early as possible, because giving up the threat is not in Kabal's favor in the long run. On top of this, Jade moves out of range of Kabal's better normals fairly easily thanks to her backwards movement being so good + d4, so being up close isn't a total wash.
It's a really fun matchup to play....mainly because mid screen jade then has to be warry of the dash...when the glow runs out she now has to ensure a safe way of getting it out and then beware of kabals massive J2. I enjoy it from both sides really, it's a fun cat and mouse lol
 

Blewdew

PSN: MaxKayX3
It's a really fun matchup to play....mainly because mid screen jade then has to be warry of the dash...when the glow runs out she now has to ensure a safe way of getting it out and then beware of kabals massive J2. I enjoy it from both sides really, it's a fun cat and mouse lol
I enjoy it too as a kabal player it really forces one to play patient. It‘s really fun when both sides are on the same level
 
Yeah Kabal certainly doesn't have the advantage over Jade. 7-3 in Kabal's favor is ridiculous.

Jade's projectile immunity completely nullifies Kabal's long range game, makes it useless. It's hard to punish glow with nomad dash on reaction, yeah it works in the lab when you know Jade is gonna activate it and when, but in a real match it is not that easy. Time it wrong and you're eating Jade's powerful 18% punish (lol) but most importantly you get knocked down and Jade has time to escape. So the whole match becomes a chasing game and when you get close to her you want to have a rush down character that has lots of frame traps and can take away half of Jade's life bar in one touch.

Kabal is not that character. He has some great set ups and 50/50s in the clean cut variation but he's definitely not as good in this regard as other characters, not to mention he has baby damage. If you're already playing cat and mouse you might as well pick Jacqui or Baraka.

I had a really hard time against Jade as Kabal and after learning Jade's tricks it got better but it's still difficult.

I'd say the MU is 6-4 in Jade's favor. 5-5 if we're being generous.

Only game changer is when Kabal gets his FB available , but then again that means you're already sub 30% HP and if you burn it you gave up your only tool of making Jade afraid of you at long distance.
 
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