General/Other - Dualist Dualist Liu Kang Kommunity Project: Proposed Dualist Buffs

[Kickbykick]

GKL, I think this is really good. I couldn't think of anything extra. But about the orbs recovery, if this means Liu would be able to cancel the orb safely on block through f213.It would be broken imo. Am fine with f213 orb cancel = -14. Can someone explain?

 

[Kickbykick]

"Stance switch recovery have to be lessened by 5 frames."
Hell nooooooooooooooo. This is broken. We don't even have to spend a bar or stamina
If f213 ss jails into f1 or d2 jails as before, I think that would be fine. But if it jails into s1 or b1 or f2, it would be broken even if they make it a one frame link.(AM GONNA LEARN IT).

 

[GreatKungLao]

GKL, I think this is really good. I couldn't think of anything extra. But about the orbs recovery, if this means Liu would be able to cancel the orb safely on block through f213.It would be broken imo. Am fine with f213 orb cancel = -14. Can someone explain?

But he was able to cancel F213 into red orbs safely before the latest patch and it wasn't broken.

"Stance switch recovery have to be lessened by 5 frames."
Hell nooooooooooooooo. This is broken. We don't even have to spend a bar or stamina
If f213 ss jails into f1 or d2 jails as before, I think that would be fine. But if it jails into s1 or b1 or f2, it would be broken even if they make it a one frame link.(AM GONNA LEARN IT).

This is pretty much what we want, since they nerfed F213 for the sake of nerfing Dragon's Fire, they have to compensate this with something for Dualist variation in order for his original stuff to work again (jailing with F1, D2), because before Dragon's Fire nerfs Dualist was more than fine and even better than he is right now. Besides DD1 has a cool down so you won't be able to do it more than once in a block string. Besides, the only reason we are asking for 5 frames lesser recovery for DD1 is because they promised 7 frames less recovery with the latest patch, but in fact they lessened it only by 2 frames.

So to make things short: with these buffs we want NRS to bring back Dualist Liu Kang what they have taken from him by nerfing F213.

 

[Bruno-NeoSpace]

Guys, let's be honest, there are some buffs listed that are BROKEN.

Consider giving Dualist an EX version of Healing where he puts a white aura on himself that heals 1% each second and with that he can move, attack and block. This aura should not disappear after getting a hit, but should disappear after switch into Dark side. The aura should last for 15 seconds so that for 1 bar he could heal total of 15% health.

That's not necessary. Dualist doesn't need this because buffing the healing to make it heal 1% while holding and 3% on release of the special already would be very good.

Damage charge buff special move should either have EX version for instant level 3 charge or make charge special a bit faster than it is.

Flame Fist or Dualist? This would be better than Shaolin-ferno... lol
I agree about to make the charge special a bit faster than it is, but an EX version... Dualist doesn't need this because buffing the damage buff to don't disappear after getting hit already would be really good.

Damage buff recovery should be lessened by 10 frames.

I think F2,1,3 into damage buff is -6. With that buff, I think F2,1,3 into damage buff would be +4. That's broke because Liu Kang would have almost an infinite block pressure: F2,1,3 ~ DB3 = +4. Then, F2 would be 6f mid, and he would do the same blockstring over and over again.

Dualist Liu Kang should be able to cancel his combos into special move that stops red orbs after he throws EX red orb, so that option won't be free for it's strength of giving plus frames on block or new combo possibilities on hit.

I still say that it is really broken. F2,1,3 into stop red orb = +23 on block. Meteless and without spending stamina... best blockstring in the game. lol

Red orbs should have less recovery: -5 recovery for regular orb because it has an EX version, -5 recovery for low orb because it is low

I suggested these buffs, and now i'm suggested to remove these buffs because it would make F2,1,3 into red orb = -9 on block.
Let's be sincere. You gotta react to that orb coming out, even if you jump over you would get anti aired, if you backdash, you can't punish and I can run. If i do F2,1,3 ~ SS ~ F2,1,3 ~ Solar Blast ~ F2,1,3 ~ SS ~ F2,1,3 ~ Ex orb (-9) block in the corner, if the opponent doesn't react I can continue. It's almost like an infinite with gap.

About the air orb, It is fair -15 recovery for air orb because air orb is very useless.

Stance switch recovery have to be lessened by 5 frames.

F2,1,3 into SS is +5 and that's good for meteless and without spending stamina. Lessening SS by 5 frames would make F2,1,3 into SS = +10.
Let's check blockstrings with F2,1,3 in other variations:

Dragon's Fire: F2,1,3 into FBRC = +13, but it is hard to execute and it spend stamina.
Flame Fist: F2,1,3 into Shaolin Flame into Wildmill Punch = true blockstring, but it is hard to execute and it is no safe.

Lessening SS by 5 frames is not necessary.

That's it. About the other buffs, they're all fair enough.

 

[Kickbykick]

But he was able to cancel F213 into red orbs safely before the latest patch and it wasn't broken.

It was nuts, we didn't utilize it well . If Liu can use both dark and light stance for pressure its gonna be broken. Imagine the feeling of the person sitting there, blocking and waiting to react and stuffs like that.

If f213 normal orb = -9, you can just ex bicycle kick in the corner and full combo. Now they gotta fear you, You can just grab. For sure they can back dash and jump out. If the jump forward, you anti air. If they jump backwards bf2. If they back-dash they get out and you don't even have to fear their mix-up, just run in b2. Its punishable but had, Most chars have 8 frame moves(2frames). BRUHHHHHHHHHHH.They can just mix you up on a read that you would block.

If f213 ex orb = -9, It would be super free. They can jump out but still the same situation. I don't think they can back-dash. And after it explodes you are plus to do what you want. so f213 ss f213 ex orb(block) - explode - pressure. what? If they try to punish with an 8 frame normal, the orb would explode. they can't poke. And all this stuffs are still based on reaction. A char like mileena can get out with 8 frame roll but its still a 2 frame punish. Putting your life on the line.

Its nuts!!

 

[Parasurama]

I think the stance switch frame adv being increased is a kompletely good idea because of the reason mentioned - ie. it has a cooldown, therefore it happens once. The beauty about it would be that it would encourage the LK to SS and play as a 'dualist' instead of going for their favorite stance, I think it would be better to have that than the ex fireball jailing, then there would be no infinite to worry about, besides there is too much pushback. The orbs right now do not seem to have much benefit to them, they work sometimes especially if the opponent knows what they actually do. Really not sure about orbs but the stance switch pressure needs the frame advantage.

 

[Kickbykick]

I think the stance switch frame adv being increased is a kompletely good idea because of the reason mentioned - ie. it has a cooldown, therefore it happens once. The beauty about it would be that it would encourage the LK to SS and play as a 'dualist' instead of going for their favorite stance, I think it would be better to have that than the ex fireball jailing, then there would be no infinite to worry about, besides there is too much pushback. The orbs right now do not seem to have much benefit to them, they work sometimes especially if the opponent knows what they actually do. Really not sure about orbs but the stance switch pressure needs the frame advantage.

Cool down? If your opponent knows that f213 ss f213 is a block-string and they can't move you can destroy them. F213 ss 44(+4) f213 ss 111(+2) f213 ss f213 bla bla bla

 

[Parasurama]

Cool down? If your opponent knows that f213 ss f213 is a block-string and they can't move you can destroy them. F213 ss 44(+4) f213 ss 111(+2) f213 ss f213 bla bla bla

There are lots of gaps in between those strings though, they can move, we are just in advantage, except with the proposed SS.

 

[Kickbykick]

But Its Plus. What bout without no meter and and in the corner.

 

[Parasurama]

But Its Plus. What bout without no meter and and in the corner.

Low profiles, jumps, njp's, pokes. I really do not think it is overpowered. This is dualist, he needs help. Switching stances should be encouraged. I do not mind which ever way it goes actually, but it would be nice to use him competitively.

 

[Kickbykick]

Low profiles, jumps, njp's, pokes. I really do not think it is overpowered. This is dualist, he needs help. Switching stances should be encouraged. I do not mind which ever way it goes actually, but it would be nice to use him competitively.

Okay

 

[Kickbykick]

New buff : We need a new skin. When he goes dark stance we want him to glow like Akuma with raging demon. . I would pay to get it

 

[GreatKungLao]

I still say that it is really broken. F2,1,3 into stop red orb = +23 on block. Meteless and without spending stamina... best blockstring in the game. lol

Dude, I wrote "when he throws EX red orb" for a reason there. When he throws EX red orb, he should be able to cancel combos into DB1. Having this advantage for a bad is fair.

ending stamina. Lessening SS by 5 frames would make F2,1,3 into SS = +10.
Let's check blockstrings with F2,1,3 in other variations:

Dragon's Fire: F2,1,3 into FBRC = +13, but it is hard to execute and it spend stamina.
Flame Fist: F2,1,3 into Shaolin Flame into Wildmill Punch = true blockstring, but it is hard to execute and it is no safe.

Lessening SS by 5 frames is not necessary.

You forget one very important thing, meight. After DD1 Dualist game plan changes entirely and if we are removing red orbs recovery and don't ask for old F213, then 5 frames less for DD1 is fair. Dragon's Fire and Flame Fist on the other hand don't lose their basic game plan after getting into + frames. Or how much do you suggest to make DD1 less in frames so that it won't be "broken"? 3 instead of 5?


Fixed everything else.

So guys, is this enough now? Because I want to send a link tomorrow to NRS devs.

 

[Parasurama]

Kickbykick and I agreed that plus frames should be like the old F213 SS.

 

[just_2swift]

Guys, let's be honest, there are some buffs listed that are BROKEN.



That's not necessary. Dualist doesn't need this because buffing the healing to make it heal 1% while holding and 3% on release of the special already would be very good.



Flame Fist or Dualist? This would be better than Shaolin-ferno... lol
I agree about to make the charge special a bit faster than it is, but an EX version... Dualist doesn't need this because buffing the damage buff to don't disappear after getting hit already would be really good.



I think F2,1,3 into damage buff is -6. With that buff, I think F2,1,3 into damage buff would be +4. That's broke because Liu Kang would have almost an infinite block pressure: F2,1,3 ~ DB3 = +4. Then, F2 would be 6f mid, and he would do the same blockstring over and over again.



I still say that it is really broken. F2,1,3 into stop red orb = +23 on block. Meteless and without spending stamina... best blockstring in the game. lol



I suggested these buffs, and now i'm suggested to remove these buffs because it would make F2,1,3 into red orb = -9 on block.
Let's be sincere. You gotta react to that orb coming out, even if you jump over you would get anti aired, if you backdash, you can't punish and I can run. If i do F2,1,3 ~ SS ~ F2,1,3 ~ Solar Blast ~ F2,1,3 ~ SS ~ F2,1,3 ~ Ex orb (-9) block in the corner, if the opponent doesn't react I can continue. It's almost like an infinite with gap.

About the air orb, It is fair -15 recovery for air orb because air orb is very useless.



F2,1,3 into SS is +5 and that's good for meteless and without spending stamina. Lessening SS by 5 frames would make F2,1,3 into SS = +10.
Let's check blockstrings with F2,1,3 in other variations:

Dragon's Fire: F2,1,3 into FBRC = +13, but it is hard to execute and it spend stamina.
Flame Fist: F2,1,3 into Shaolin Flame into Wildmill Punch = true blockstring, but it is hard to execute and it is no safe.

Lessening SS by 5 frames is not necessary.

That's it. About the other buffs, they're all fair enough.

What about the health gain after stance switch to light stance based on the lvl of charged darkness in dark stance lvl one 3% lvl two 5% lvl three 7% . Barring they don't touch the healing in light stance or increase healing in light stance to .75 and and dark buff not going away on hit in dark stance.

 

[just_2swift]

This will solve his healing woes

 

[Parasurama]

This will solve his healing woes

It might give me a reason to change to light stance if I had dark charge activated, because currently I would not switch stances if I had it. I love having that red energy radiating doing enhanced damage.

 

[GreatKungLao]

Ok guys, please read first post again, tell me if something is missing or should be added. I want to start sending this tomorrow on twitter to NRS staff.

And tell me if all of you want Switch Stance with Dark buff charged recover health depending on level of the charge. Does Dualist needs it at all if we will get healing buff?

 

[Bruno-NeoSpace]

• Damage charge buff should be faster, because right now getting level 3 and sometimes even level 2 safe in real match with high level gameplay opponent is pretty much impossible and even if you did, it goes away with a simple poke or grab, which brings us back to the buff where disappearance of Dark charge after getting hit should be gone.

• Liu Kang should be able to charge Dark damage buff further if he stopped charging at level 1 or level 2.

Liu Kang being able to charge dark damage buff further if he stopped charging at level 1 or level 2, he will not need the buff to charge faster the damage buff because he will be able to charge level 1 to 2 and 3 anytime.

An example:

You are in a fight, then you charge the level 1 that is very easy, then your oponents comes in your face, you defend, punish, and when the level 1 will disappear, you charge to level 2, and then you hits a B2 in your oponent, then you charge to level 3.

Remove the ideia to charge faster. The ideia of charge Dark damage buff further if he stopped charging at level 1 or level 2 is a waaaay better and is enough for the charge.

 

[GreatKungLao]

Liu Kang being able to charge dark damage buff further if he stopped charging at level 1 or level 2, he will not need the buff to charge faster the damage buff because he will be able to charge level 1 to 2 and 3 anytime.

An example:

You are in a fight, then you charge the level 1 that is very easy, then your oponents comes in your face, you defend, punish, and when the level 1 will disappear, you charge to level 2, and then you hits a B2 in your oponent, then you charge to level 3.

Remove the ideia to charge faster. The ideia of charge Dark damage buff further if he stopped charging at level 1 or level 2 is a waaaaay better.

I guess this is fair. Fixed, also added more description to the reasons why damage charge should not disappear after getting hit. Hopefully I made it reasonable.

 

[Parasurama]

Probably not if we really do get buffs to the health aura thing, you did not request more recovery or less start up to the heal aura move? I think that is more important than the amount of healing, although right now it is too little as it is. Kotal's sunlight is a way better healing move, it heals faster, it heals you and you can block, attack, be attacked lol, and it has a great ex healing ability which also damages opponent. I am open to ex uses for the health aura and dark charge too, but right now I think that the health aura move needs help.
We wanted health buffs from the very beginning. Cant believe they have not fixed it yet.

Ok guys, please read first post again, tell me if something is missing or should be added. I want to start sending this tomorrow on twitter to NRS staff.

And tell me if all of you want Switch Stance with Dark buff charged recover health depending on level of the charge. Does Dualist needs it at all if we will get healing buff?[/

.[/QUOTE

 

[SylverRye]

I really hope they help out dualist . Imo its fisticuffs cage,master of storms raiden and unbreakable sub type bad

 

[GreatKungLao]

Probably not if we really do get buffs to the health aura thing, you did not request more recovery or less start up to the heal aura move? I think that is more important than the amount of healing, although right now it is too little as it is. Kotal's sunlight is a way better healing move, it heals faster, it heals you and you can block, attack, be attacked lol, and it has a great ex healing ability which also damages opponent. I am open to ex uses for the health aura and dark charge too, but right now I think that the health aura move needs help.
We wanted health buffs from the very beginning. Cant believe they have not fixed it yet.

I think first of all we better try to ask for at least what we have right now and what needs to be done at highest priority. If this thread thing will work and NRS will notice us and actually do the buffs, then we can try something else if there will be need for that. Greed won't lead us anywhere either. We have to be reasonable enough with what we are asking in the first post.

So guys, please, check it out again, tell me if this is enough for now and I will start sending it first thing when I wake up tomorrow Monday.

 

[Bruno-NeoSpace]

Dude, I wrote "when he throws EX red orb" for a reason there. When he throws EX red orb, he should be able to cancel combos into DB1. Having this advantage for a bad is fair.

Ahh, I don't know... you will throw the EX orb only to be at least between +10 ~ +23, because the EX orb will not hit the oponent because it will be far from the oponent.

Red orbs having bigger hurtbox, Liu Kang being able to charge dark damage buff further if stopped charging at level 1 and 2, damage buff staying on hit, and faster air orb; these buffs already would make the orbs and the dark side a waaaaaaaaaaaayyyyy better. That's the why I think these buffs are enough for the dark side.

I don't wanna the dark side being very superior than the light side. I wanna use both in a balanced way. Liu Kang already has +15 on block with Solar Flare, and with the buff to decrease the pushback of Solar Flare, it would make he's pressure much better.

You forget one very important thing, meight. After DD1 Dualist game plan changes entirely and if we are removing red orbs recovery and don't ask for old F213, then 5 frames less for DD1 is fair. Dragon's Fire and Flame Fist on the other hand don't lose their basic game plan after getting into + frames. Or how much do you suggest to make DD1 less in frames so that it won't be "broken"? 3 instead of 5?

I still don't want this buff because with this buff I won't use very much the powers of the stances because I will change the stances everytime only to be +8 (if it be decreased by 3 frames) or +10 (if it be decreased by 5 frames).
In the light side, I can be +15 but it spends 1 bar and it has pushback, and in the dark side I can be +6 (i'm not sure if the orbs are +6) but it spends 1 bar.
I would say: ''Fuck it, I will not spend 1 bar, I will only do F2,1,3 into SS and be +8 (if it be decreased by 3 frames) or be +10 (if it be decreased by 5 frames).

 

[Saltea Moonspell]

In many cases Dragon Roar (db2+BLK) is whiffing. Imo there is something not right about that. I am really looking into those buffs!