General/Other - Dualist Dualist cancel adv, frame data, bugs & balance recommendations.

[FOREVER EL1TE]

I haven't used dualist Liu in a while but I'd love to see more of him. Does his orb truly have no blockstun? If so maybe it should have some

The red orb is,+6 it feels like. It's plus but it's weird

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

The red orb is,+6 it feels like. It's plus but it's weird

How you know?

 

[FOREVER EL1TE]

How you know?

Because the opponent armors through my attacks. After a while of testing. It may be very plus. Like +20. However the block stun on it isn't high and if you don't press a button immediately after you start losing your frame advantage.. Which is why I say +6 because you will often miss that timing to make it a true block string so they can armor

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Because the opponent armors through my attacks. After a while of testing. It may be very plus. Like +20. However the block stun on it isn't high and if you don't press a button immediately after you start losing your frame advantage.. Which is why I say +6 because you will often miss that timing to make it a true block string so they can armor

Except that there is no distance advantage like other projectiles. idk man...would it make a difference?

 

[FOREVER EL1TE]

Except that there is no distance advantage like other projectiles. idk man...would it make a difference?

I don't think it would. Again the orb is weird. If it explodes, you will usually hit them before they can hit you. But they can armor through 80% of the time unless you get that frame where it's a true block string

 

[GreatKungLao]

I don't know why this is not in the first post, but I think that Dualist Liu Kang's low red orbs should hit the freaking LOW, not mid for Elder Gods sake. It will allow his 113 to be much more usable and his 50/50 will become insane with low red orbs hitting low.

I think his damage buff shouldn't disappear even on hit, because it is already hard enough to get it charged, Kotal Kahn can combo into his buff totems and it will not disappear after 1 hit, even though his buff is also massive. Scorpion can easily combo into his buff, so him having it disappear after 1 hit is fair. Liu Kang can also combo into his buff, but only lvl1 and it is very hard to get that set up that allows you to juggle into buff. In the end you just risk your time of chargining Yin buff only for it to disappear after 1 freaking hit.

 

[KH_Seraph]

So, it's been a couple of days since the patch guys, what do you think of Dualist Liu now?


Having the low orb actually hit low is great, and I haven't gotten around to testing the damage buff to see how its fixed (Does it remain intact after hit?). He still definitely needs a little more attention given to him though.

* The startup and recovery frames on his light fireballs need to be improved to make him even MK9 levels of upper-mid tier viable.
* Same goes for his air fireballs (light and dark). Almost useless unless you make a hard read and hit them with a light fireball while they jump.
* His healing is STILL USELESS and only good for taunting during and after a match.
* Dragon's roar STILL whiffs at the end of some juggle combos, particularly after B34~F44.
* Orbs STILL explode prematurely in the corners of some stages, which has a disgusting impact on his meta.
* Why for the love of the dragon can't I enhance my low fireballs?! NRS PLEASE.

Those are a few of my gripes. It would also be cool if you could cancel F21U4 into air fireball as another option in case the opponent is conditioned to simply jump in the middle of orb pressure. Both dragon fire and flame fist have unique properties to their specials and strings, so why shouldn't Dualist...

What are your thoughts and findings so far? I over heard F123 was shadow buffed as well, and is a true blockstring now. Any other items of note?

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

So, it's been a couple of days since the patch guys, what do you think of Dualist Liu now?


Having the low orb actually hit low is great, and I haven't gotten around to testing the damage buff to see how its fixed (Does it remain intact after hit?). He still definitely needs a little more attention given to him though.

* The startup and recovery frames on his light fireballs need to be improved to make him even MK9 levels of upper-mid tier viable.
* Same goes for his air fireballs (light and dark). Almost useless unless you make a hard read and hit them with a light fireball while they jump.
* His healing is STILL USELESS and only good for taunting during and after a match.
* Dragon's roar STILL whiffs at the end of some juggle combos, particularly after B34~F44.
* Orbs STILL explode prematurely in the corners of some stages, which has a disgusting impact on his meta.
* Why for the love of the dragon can't I enhance my low fireballs?! NRS PLEASE.

Those are a few of my gripes. It would also be cool if you could cancel F21U4 into air fireball as another option in case the opponent is conditioned to simply jump in the middle of orb pressure. Both dragon fire and flame fist have unique properties to their specials and strings, so why shouldn't Dualist...

What are your thoughts and findings so far? I over heard F123 was shadow buffed as well, and is a true blockstring now. Any other items of note?

i'm on vacation till tomrrow and then fly out sunday to philly for work. i'll have a little time on saturday to mess with the patch (if its even out on xbox) but i have nothing and i'm so sad.

 

[KH_Seraph]

So after playing a long set of casuals last night with Ermac, Jax, Ferra Tor, Kenshi, and Kung Lao, I've come to the realization that Dualist is pure low tier garbage. He is the Jade or the Stryker of MKX.

Light stance is almost worthless. His only projectiles have millions of frames of startup and recovery, and do NO DAMAGE whatsoever for the risk.

He cannot do iafb corner combos like DF and FF can. Nope, just can't do them.

His healing move is ABSOLUTELY WORTHLESS. Worse than Cyborg's trait in Injustice. It doesn't heal, and has no practical use in ANY MATCH UP WHATSOEVER.

The hit box on his orbs need to be improved IMO, or the speed or SOMETHING needs to be improved about these things. I would recommend reducing the startup for standard and low orbs, as well as the recovery on air orbs.

Liu King also NEEDS to be able to stop orbs mid combo.

Otherwise, his toolset is sorely lacking in comparison to the other variations much less the rest of the cast. He has to work so hard to get any momentum going, and can easily be poked or armored out of EVERYTHING that isn't f213 stance change.

I feel like I'm going to Evo now after paying over 500$ to climb an uphill battle with a broken ass character, arguably the worst in the game. Guess I have to scramble to train DF Liu after pouring so much into Dualist and FF since everyone and their grandmother knows the holes in their pressure.

 

[FOREVER EL1TE]

So after playing a long set of casuals last night with Ermac, Jax, Ferra Tor, Kenshi, and Kung Lao, I've come to the realization that Dualist is pure low tier garbage. He is the Jade or the Stryker of MKX.

Light stance is almost worthless. His only projectiles have millions of frames of startup and recovery, and do NO DAMAGE whatsoever for the risk.

He cannot do iafb corner combos like DF and FF can. Nope, just can't do them.

His healing move is ABSOLUTELY WORTHLESS. Worse than Cyborg's trait in Injustice. It doesn't heal, and has no practical use in ANY MATCH UP WHATSOEVER.

The hit box on his orbs need to be improved IMO, or the speed or SOMETHING needs to be improved about these things. I would recommend reducing the startup for standard and low orbs, as well as the recovery on air orbs.

Liu King also NEEDS to be able to stop orbs mid combo.

Otherwise, his toolset is sorely lacking in comparison to the other variations much less the rest of the cast. He has to work so hard to get any momentum going, and can easily be poked or armored out of EVERYTHING that isn't f213 stance change.

I feel like I'm going to Evo now after paying over 500$ to climb an uphill battle with a broken ass character, arguably the worst in the game. Guess I have to scramble to train DF Liu after pouring so much into Dualist and FF since everyone and their grandmother knows the holes in their pressure.

Well bye bye. Dualist isn't garbage or low tier, but have fun

 

[SplitMushroom]

Dualist isn't bad but I mean if the opponent knows how to fight Liu Kang, you're gonna have a hard time lol. But that stance cancel pressure is a godsend

 

[KH_Seraph]

Well bye bye. Dualist isn't garbage or low tier, but have fun

Play people who are good and know the matchup. Seriously, it's 7-3 and 6-4 in most cases. You can't out zone Ferra Tor for example because boss toss literally destroys his projectiles, even enhanced ones. You can't rush him down because he can poke or armor you out, and you can't remain in neutral because that's where Ferra Tor excels. He's garb. I'm still going to play him, but he's garbage.

 

[SplitMushroom]

Play people who are good and know the matchup. Seriously, it's 7-3 and 6-4 in most cases. You can't out zone Ferra Tor for example because boss toss literally destroys his projectiles, even enhanced ones. You can't rush him down because he can poke or armor you out, and you can't remain in neutral because that's where Ferra Tor excels. He's garb. I'm still going to play him, but he's garbage.

I feel like you can rush anyone down with Liu Kang though. Stance cancel into f44 usually foolls most people. If they try and beat it then you stance cancel into b12. For a mix-up you stance cancel into a standing 1 and then when they block high (which for some strange reason everyone does lol) you go low and rinse and repeat. I do agree that F/T is a monster in the neutral though. However, I wouldn't consider it to be anything like a 7-3. Now Dualist versus pre-patch Pyromancer Tanya, now THAT was a 7-3 lol

 

[KH_Seraph]

He needs to get fixed and receive some love. That's all I'm saying. You can try all of that as you wish, but like I said I spent all night playing and once they figured out Liu's special animations, they knew when to poke, punish, etc. Reliance on people not knowing the matchup to win doesn't make Dualist a good character. Matchup numbers are there to determine the likely outcome between players of equal skill level.

 

[FOREVER EL1TE]

Play people who are good and know the matchup. Seriously, it's 7-3 and 6-4 in most cases. You can't out zone Ferra Tor for example because boss toss literally destroys his projectiles, even enhanced ones. You can't rush him down because he can poke or armor you out, and you can't remain in neutral because that's where Ferra Tor excels. He's garb. I'm still going to play him, but he's garbage.

I play people that know dualist, I do just fine. Yeah he has bad matchups, that's normal. If you read a poke, block it and punish.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

So after playing a long set of casuals last night with Ermac, Jax, Ferra Tor, Kenshi, and Kung Lao, I've come to the realization that Dualist is pure low tier garbage. He is the Jade or the Stryker of MKX.

Light stance is almost worthless. His only projectiles have millions of frames of startup and recovery, and do NO DAMAGE whatsoever for the risk.

He cannot do iafb corner combos like DF and FF can. Nope, just can't do them.

His healing move is ABSOLUTELY WORTHLESS. Worse than Cyborg's trait in Injustice. It doesn't heal, and has no practical use in ANY MATCH UP WHATSOEVER.

The hit box on his orbs need to be improved IMO, or the speed or SOMETHING needs to be improved about these things. I would recommend reducing the startup for standard and low orbs, as well as the recovery on air orbs.

Liu King also NEEDS to be able to stop orbs mid combo.

Otherwise, his toolset is sorely lacking in comparison to the other variations much less the rest of the cast. He has to work so hard to get any momentum going, and can easily be poked or armored out of EVERYTHING that isn't f213 stance change.

I feel like I'm going to Evo now after paying over 500$ to climb an uphill battle with a broken ass character, arguably the worst in the game. Guess I have to scramble to train DF Liu after pouring so much into Dualist and FF since everyone and their grandmother knows the holes in their pressure.

You are 100% correct. Play someone like pig or djt and you will struggle to open them up. F213 cs f44 doesn't fool anyone good.

Dualist blows...name of Liu kang's sex tape

 

[Predannok]

Im getting the feeling that setup characters arent really good at what they do in MKX due to the pace of the game, MOS raiden, Ronin takeda, Dualist, Hattrick maybe they just need waaay more time to get the hang of but im pretty sure none of these will ever been seen in a tournament in the next months or years unless they get some tweaks.Im not saying their garbage they are Ok but not really "good" when u compare them to their other variations. I love Setup characters i mained Lex luthor, Zod and MMh IMO controlling the space is what they should excell at, making the opponent fear thier tools but i really don'T see that with these characters.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Im getting the feeling that setup characters arent really good at what they do in MKX due to the pace of the game, MOS raiden, Ronin takeda, Dualist, Hattrick maybe they just need waaay more time to get the hang of but im pretty sure none of these will ever been seen in a tournament in the next months or years unless they get some tweaks.Im not saying their garbage they are Ok but not really "good" when u compare them to their other variations. I love Setup characters i mained Lex luthor, Zod and MMh IMO controlling the space is what they should excell at, making the opponent fear thier tools but i really don'T see that with these characters.

No one does...that's why they blow.

 

[Predannok]

No one does...that's why they blow.

I Hope Predator gonna be a strong setup character...I really really really hope so

 

[xInfra Deadx]

Dualist blows...name of Liu kang's sex tape

I lol'd.

 

[Bruno-NeoSpace]

A lot of patches launched, and... the healing still is useless, and the orbs still are exploding in the corner of some scenarios