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Tech - Special Forces Drone Call/Park Drone Cancel Frame Data

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
Listed below are the advantages you receive on hit and on block from cancelling said listed move into Drone and Park Drone while the opponent is grounded. Moves that cannot be cancelled into drone call/park are not listed. Any listed as N/A means that the move launches so most of the time the move cancelled into drone call/park will probably be safe. All frame data may be off by +/- 1 or 2 frames maximum due to human error.

To understand what the frame data means:
If a move is -9 on hit it means specials with 9 or less frames of startup AND normals with 9 or less frames of startup will punish it
If a move is -9 on block it means a special with 9 or less frames of startup will punish it but only normals with 8 or less frames of startup will punish it


Key
Move cancelled into : drone call on hit | park drone on hit | drone call on block | park drone on block
Safe Unsafe

1 : at least -25 | -12 | at least -25 | -18
11 : +1 | let's just say she has enough hitstun to continue the combo with another 11 | -15 | -5
111 : -18 | -5 | -16 | (too much pushback to calculate reliably, safe but slightly negative)
12 : -15 | -3 | -23 | -10
121 : -12 | +1 | -19 | -6
B1 : -14 | -1 | at least -25 | -14
B14 : -3 | enough hitstun to combo into 11 | -20 | -6
D1 : -19 | -5 | at least -25 | -20
2 : -12 | -5 | at least -25 | -15
21 : -7 | +7 | at least -25 | -15
213 : -4 | enough hitstun to combo into 11 | at least -25 | -15
22 : -16 | -5 | -24 | -9
F2 : -11 | -2 | -21 | -7
3 : -13 | -1 | at least -25 | -12
B3 : -10 | -2 | at least -25 | -12
B33 : -8 | +2 | at least -25 | -11
B332 first hit : -5 | +6 | -17/-18 | -5
B332 second hit: -5 | enough hitstun to combo into 11 | -19/-20 | -5
B33212 first hit : -15 | -3 | at least -25 | -14
D3 : -18 | -5 | at least -25 | -21
4 : N/A | N/A | -21 | -7
F4 first hit : -6 | +7 | -17/-18 | -5
F4 second hit : N/A | N/A | -20 | -6/7
D4 : -5 | +8 | at least -25 | -15


This took bloody AGES to work out by testing and double checking each one with a few different characters for move startup reasons but I think it's worth knowing what we're dealing with here. Hopefully from this you can work out some pressure techniques or look into some ways to make your pressure safe or find some safe drone call setups :p

PS. Didn't bother looking into how negative moves were after -20ish because everyone's going to punish it anyway lol.

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Jolt

Uprise
Premium Supporter
Really appreciate the effort you put into this. And my first tag in the Sonya section I believe. Now we just need to persuade someone to go through and color everything generally safe green.
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
Looks great, but I was suggesting we get someone other than you to do it lol. You've done enough! Makes a great quick reference now
Nothing is ever enough.....must.....test.....more............(but really I was planning to test Hat Trick Lao's frame data next anyway although I have a feeling someone might have already tested it and just isn't telling anyone the data -_- )
 

colby4898

Special Forces Sonya Up-player
Awesome appreciate the effort. I didn't think there was a safe drone call on block and you just confirmed that, shame :(
Just thought I'd say there's enough hit stun for b14 park 213 to link as well as 11. Both of which will only link in the corner as far as I know.

Also I think it would be a good idea to have an amber colour for things that aren't 'safe' only agains very specific moves. Eg b14 park in block being -6 you've marked as unsafe when I believe there's only 2 moves that are 6 on start up so it wouldn't ever really get punished if that make sense.

Again great work appreciate the effort, very well written up :)
 
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Jolt

Uprise
Premium Supporter
Also I think it would be a good idea to have an amber colour for things that aren't 'safe' only agains very specific moves. Eg b14 park in block being -6 you've marked as unsafe when I believe there's only 2 moves that are 6 on start up so it wouldn't ever really get punished if that make sense.
I can agree there. I generally consider -7 to -6 safeISH. -6 is safe with essentially Cassie and Reptile as exceptions. -7 is safe except for Cassie, Lao, Reptile, and anyone with a 6f poke but a lot of people don't even consider a poke a punish (I'm not one of those people, but still) and even then it would have to be frame perfect.
 

HugeMcBigLarge

Retirement my ass
Awesome stuff! Is there practical application to doing these instead of a blk+1 or a blk+2 with the drone out? I think the frame adv from those is pretty superior to most of these, but it could be some mix up option? Not sure.

The one that really stands out are the 11->drone park/call or 121, but those are her most + strings anyways. I think the 213 drone call/park is risky because it's unsafe on block even without the cancel (like -13) which means if they block this string they know they can lay the punish down. Have people had success using this so far?

Also, great throwback to mk9 where the frame data was on the forums courtesy of the community heroes. Great job Youph!
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
Awesome stuff! Is there practical application to doing these instead of a blk+1 or a blk+2 with the drone out? I think the frame adv from those is pretty superior to most of these, but it could be some mix up option? Not sure.

The one that really stands out are the 11->drone park/call or 121, but those are her most + strings anyways. I think the 213 drone call/park is risky because it's unsafe on block even without the cancel (like -13) which means if they block this string they know they can lay the punish down. Have people had success using this so far?

Also, great throwback to mk9 where the frame data was on the forums courtesy of the community heroes. Great job Youph!
Cheers! Yeah I reckon most of the time it's just better to cancel into blk+1 or blk+2 as they're less likely to get full combo punished. It sucks because I would've thought the point of park drone was to make strings safe! And with 99% of her moves you can't even combo from that move into park drone on hit so it makes me wonder what it's even for lol.
 

colby4898

Special Forces Sonya Up-player
Yeah it's a bit
Cheers! Yeah I reckon most of the time it's just better to cancel into blk+1 or blk+2 as they're less likely to get full combo punished. It sucks because I would've thought the point of park drone was to make strings safe! And with 99% of her moves you can't even combo from that move into park drone on hit so it makes me wonder what it's even for lol.
Yeah it's a bit pointless really. As I've said before I only use it to make b14 safe to make confirming easier. I think the idea they had was to park it somewhere so then when you're further away from it you can take advantage of that.
For example parking it in the corner to keep the opponent there, or parking it full screen to change zoning, or activating a low kamikaze when it's off screen and doing an over head makin hard to blockables.
However because of the short timer there is no point! I think they should change it so when it's parked it pauses the timer, that would make it so much more useful and think change the way she's played quite a lot.
 

Jolt

Uprise
Premium Supporter
The frames here should be about the same for all drone attacks, assuming that they do not make contact with the opponent (which would change hit/block stun)

The only purpose of drone park is that it CAN be buffered. And that it can leave the drone parked, but that's obvious. The opponent will not be able to react fast enough to determine whether you are simply parking or doing another drone move. I think the whole point is to mix them up. Park when you're not sure what will happen, but use an appropriate attack when you're making a read. Ie b14 kamikaze if you read they'll block low, but b14 park if you are less confident.

B14 kamikaze will probably not come out on block so you have to be more confident it will connect

B14 park is coming out either way, so it's low risk low reward in comparison.

Park exists just to help cover the fluctuations and timing and lack of buffer for other options. At least that's what I am starting to think
 

colby4898

Special Forces Sonya Up-player
The frames here should be about the same for all drone attacks, assuming that they do not make contact with the opponent (which would change hit/block stun)

The only purpose of drone park is that it CAN be buffered. And that it can leave the drone parked, but that's obvious. The opponent will not be able to react fast enough to determine whether you are simply parking or doing another drone move. I think the whole point is to mix them up. Park when you're not sure what will happen, but use an appropriate attack when you're making a read. Ie b14 kamikaze if you read they'll block low, but b14 park if you are less confident.

B14 kamikaze will probably not come out on block so you have to be more confident it will connect

B14 park is coming out either way, so it's low risk low reward in comparison.

Park exists just to help cover the fluctuations and timing and lack of buffer for other options. At least that's what I am starting to think
That's what I use it for but I don't think that's what NRS intended it for, I think it was intended for what I said. Of course it's impossible to know what they were hoping it would be used, all we do know that's its almost pointless. :p
 

Jolt

Uprise
Premium Supporter
That's what I use it for but I don't think that's what NRS intended it for, I think it was intended for what I said. Of course it's impossible to know what they were hoping it would be used, all we do know that's its almost pointless. :p
Nah, I'm pretty sure it's a mixture. Otherwise, they'd just go ahead and let us buffer the other drone moves or make it like Quan's bat. They have done both and can do both, so it would be strange for that one option to buffer when none of the others do otherwise IMO.

But as you said, we'll never know. But we DO know if you do b14 kamikaze enough times, they'll try to do something about the kamikaze. If you do b14 park, it LOOKS like you were doing your typical b14 kamikaze, but you now have other options to counter their reaction without the drone getting in your way while ALSO putting it in a parked position to be used later.
 

colby4898

Special Forces Sonya Up-player
Nah, I'm pretty sure it's a mixture. Otherwise, they'd just go ahead and let us buffer the other drone moves or make it like Quan's bat. They have done both and can do both, so it would be strange for that one option to buffer when none of the others do otherwise IMO.

But as you said, we'll never know. But we DO know if you do b14 kamikaze enough times, they'll try to do something about the kamikaze. If you do b14 park, it LOOKS like you were doing your typical b14 kamikaze, but you now have other options to counter their reaction without the drone getting in your way while ALSO putting it in a parked position to be used later.
But it can't really be used later because the timer is so short, which is why I think the timer should be paused when it's parked... However imagine unlimted homing missiles while its parked... I feel like something needs to be done to make park more useful, even if its not what I said
 

Ninequads93

Beware your Fears
Yeah it's a bit

Yeah it's a bit pointless really. As I've said before I only use it to make b14 safe to make confirming easier. I think the idea they had was to park it somewhere so then when you're further away from it you can take advantage of that.
For example parking it in the corner to keep the opponent there, or parking it full screen to change zoning, or activating a low kamikaze when it's off screen and doing an over head makin hard to blockables.
However because of the short timer there is no point! I think they should change it so when it's parked it pauses the timer, that would make it so much more useful and think change the way she's played quite a lot.
I've actually have been successful reacting to cancelling b14 into low kamikaze either on hit or on block it's definitely possible should b even easier with 1332 but I need to practice that one more
 

colby4898

Special Forces Sonya Up-player
The only strings where cancelling into park drone on block that are safer than the string are:
b1
b14
b33
all othe strings canceled into park on blocked make you less safe than the string itself or the same.