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Donatello General Discussion: "Get ready for gadgets"

kcd117

Noob
What is this safe 50/50 you speak of? Unless I'm misunderstanding you, bf2 being safe would just mean that he couldn't be punished afterward on block. Where is the overhead/low mixup there?
Rn his mix is f213 (overhead, mid, *gap*low) f21xxbombshell (overhead, mid, *gap*overhead - but this gap can only be poked/d2ed by some few characters) B12 (low, *gap*overhead) B1xxbombshell (low *gap* crossup overhead). If people start armoring or poking tru the gaps you can bf2 and it will beat all armor and most pokes. Making his bf2 safe would give him the option to keep his low/overhead mixups safe all the time if he wants to, while also giving him a full combo if it hits.
 
BF2 has a few problems other than being hilariously unsafe. Last hit whiffs a lot leading to a wake up punish. You can actually air escape out of it. It may be good for corner carry but it knocks the opponent too far away. He already had to chase most cast. Sorry for the grammar I’m on mobile and driving. Sshh
 
Rn his mix is f213 (overhead, mid, *gap*low) f21xxbombshell (overhead, mid, *gap*overhead - but this gap can only be poked/d2ed by some few characters) B12 (low, *gap*overhead) B1xxbombshell (low *gap* crossup overhead). If people start armoring or poking tru the gaps you can bf2 and it will beat all armor and most pokes. Making his bf2 safe would give him the option to keep his low/overhead mixups safe all the time if he wants to, while also giving him a full combo if it hits.
Ok I see what you're saying. I don't think that giving Donnie a meter-dependent "respect my offense" tool would be that big a deal, especially considering how easy he is to play around now. To be clear because you said this would keep his mixups safe "all the time" we only want his mb bf2 to be safe. That would gate the safety a bit. All of his high/low mixups are easily reactable and crazy punishable so I think this would be a step in the right direction. Definitely curious to see if they touch him at all though.
 

kcd117

Noob
BF2 has a few problems other than being hilariously unsafe. Last hit whiffs a lot leading to a wake up punish. You can actually air escape out of it. It may be good for corner carry but it knocks the opponent too far away. He already had to chase most cast. Sorry for the grammar I’m on mobile and driving. Sshh
Yeah it has many issues, the second hit also whiffs if u hit b1/b2 at the max range and the opponent recovers in time to block the rest of the move leaving u -36 lol I used to finish my combos in bf2 but it would leave me at only +3 so I started using 13 and it is really good to keep the pressure a mix going.
 

kcd117

Noob
Ok I see what you're saying. I don't think that giving Donnie a meter-dependent "respect my offense" tool would be that big a deal, especially considering how easy he is to play around now. To be clear because you said this would keep his mixups safe "all the time" we only want his mb bf2 to be safe. That would gate the safety a bit. All of his high/low mixups are easily reactable and crazy punishable so I think this would be a step in the right direction. Definitely curious to see if they touch him at all though.
I can see that, that would be better then nothing, spending a bar to stay safe would be fair.
 

kevkopdx

Noob
What is this safe 50/50 you speak of? Unless I'm misunderstanding you, bf2 being safe would just mean that he couldn't be punished afterward on block. Where is the overhead/low mixup there?
I think he means u would be able to cancel his low or overhead starter into bf2 and full combo
 

Hiyomoto

Noob
I love playing Donnie so much but that F213. Hellboy can literally do a full combo in between 1 and 3, it’s ridiculous. Cant stagger it either unless you’re a madman cause F21 is -13. You risk using bf2 which is a cool ender but not real useful. Even in the corner where I just end in straight ball or shell. I think vacuum trait is pretty good for cross ups with j2 or bombshell. I usually throw it down after B3 then immediately bombshell to cross them up. If you’re near a bgb then gg’s. But yeah this guy is so unsafe to play but I just love his whole aesthetic. He’s my favorite turtle by far for sure.
 

kcd117

Noob
You can f21xx bombshell to punish people trying to punish the gap, it is unsafe but a good mindgame to condition people to think twice about pressing buttons so you can start hit confirming f21 into 3 or turtling into backdash to stay "safe".
 

Hiyomoto

Noob
You can f21xx bombshell to punish people trying to punish the gap, it is unsafe but a good mindgame to condition people to think twice about pressing buttons so you can start hit confirming f21 into 3 or turtling into backdash to stay "safe".
You see I tried doing that against my friend and he can stand 1 me out the air with Arrow (don’t know his normals so it could’ve been another button). Sometimes we trade. I still haven’t incorporated turtling pressure in my strings I really should.
 
Depending on the requirements I may try and grind for Donnie’s Legendary piece. I got Atros, gave up on GL’s because I refuse to do another 250 Guild MV’s. The grind gets addicting especially when you reach the half way point.
 
Back to messing around with Donnie. Took a look at his b1 after db2. I'm not the biggest fan of giving up combo damage for 13 so I'm trying to work around it. What I found is you should basically be using b1 as a conditioning tool on their wakeup after db2, and it has a few interesting properties. First, if you don't do it early enough, the b1 will whiff. Second, if done correctly, it will hit the opponent and force them to block/stand closer to Donnie than they would have if they just got up naturally. Also, with the correct spacing you can either hit in front or cross up. Lastly, while it can beat out some wakeups, you can definitely be punished easily, hence the conditioning.

Once you've trained them to block low on their wakeup, that's when you can start going for the crossup bombshells off of b1. Check it out.


And then I just included a little sequence to show off what's possible with perfect reads and some meter.

 
Back to messing around with Donnie. Took a look at his b1 after db2. I'm not the biggest fan of giving up combo damage for 13 so I'm trying to work around it. What I found is you should basically be using b1 as a conditioning tool on their wakeup after db2, and it has a few interesting properties. First, if you don't do it early enough, the b1 will whiff. Second, if done correctly, it will hit the opponent and force them to block/stand closer to Donnie than they would have if they just got up naturally. Also, with the correct spacing you can either hit in front or cross up. Lastly, while it can beat out some wakeups, you can definitely be punished easily, hence the conditioning.

Once you've trained them to block low on their wakeup, that's when you can start going for the crossup bombshells off of b1. Check it out.


And then I just included a little sequence to show off what's possible with perfect reads and some meter.

Good stuff dude. Your Donnie tech has been really useful, keep it up. TYM needs more members like you.
 
Good stuff dude. Your Donnie tech has been really useful, keep it up. TYM needs more members like you.
Thanks duder. I've got some fun anti-wakeup after db2 tech I plan on recording in a bit. Basically shows how to blow up specific wake ups. I just need to get better at doing this stuff in matches. Haven't felt confident enough to try a lot of it.
 
Ok I mentioned I had been working on a little breakdown of wakeups you can beat after ending a combo in db2. Here it is.


Things to note, with the exception of Doctor Fate, I held up-forward immediately after landing the db2, so there is no jump timing to worry about. However, for some of the trickier wakeups, stuff like Bane and Cheetah and Super Girl, you need to time your 2/3 really specifically, and if your opponent doesn't wake up you're probably screwed.

Also characters with good anti-air wakeups: Robin, Superman, Wonder Woman, Swamp Thing, etc, it's better to not even attempt a jump-in. Their anti-airs are just too solid and the best you can hope for, and sometimes it's not even possible, is a trade.

With trigger-happy Fates who abuse their ankh, just step forward a tiny bit and then jump. You'll clear the attack and be able to punish with whatever you want. Make it count. For me.

Finally, this is by no means exhaustive.
 

imblackjames

Ive seen the leprechaun
What is this safe 50/50 you speak of? Unless I'm misunderstanding you, bf2 being safe would just mean that he couldn't be punished afterward on block. Where is the overhead/low mixup there?
b1 and f2 would be a safe 50/50 because itd be really easy to hit confirm. i dont event want that to be safe honestly, i just want it not -36 make it like -10 and make the mb version -7 both still punishable but just harder
 

Cursa

Counterpoke with armoured DB2 at all times.
b1 and f2 would be a safe 50/50 because itd be really easy to hit confirm. i dont event want that to be safe honestly, i just want it not -36 make it like -10 and make the mb version -7 both still punishable but just harder
Or give it that and some pushback so you can't just D1xxSpecial it
 
I made a too long video of me going over the options after Donnie's db2.


tl;dr: Condition them with b1 immediately on their wakeup. When they're blocking low do b1 mb bombshell for a nice low/overhead mix, or shimmy forward b1 mb bombshell to hit crossup. Do far mb bombshell to catch backdashes and to raw crossup. Db2 puts them at the perfect distance for the b22 mb bombshell to cross up.

You get one free forward dash after db2. I think that's it. Oh and if anyone can figure out the timing to make d2 into b3 easier, I would be forever grateful.
 
Oh and if anyone can figure out the timing to make d2 into b3 easier, I would be forever grateful.
Right!! I feel like I'm leaving way too much damage on the table due to how inconsistent I land this. I'm sure we'll get the usual TYM "git gud" but I'm struggling hard landing this consistently to the point where I've stopped doing it in my bnb's.

"Just the tip" .....Nice
 
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kcd117

Noob
I can't land the d2 b3 online unless it is from a anti air d2. I started to do s3 db2 mb b3 after mb bombshell for more dmg and more consistency. Imo 45% ish is is worth the extra bar for donnie.
 
I can't land the d2 b3 online unless it is from a anti air d2. I started to do s3 db2 mb b3 after mb bombshell for more dmg and more consistency. Imo 45% ish is is worth the extra bar for donnie.
I'm so stingy with my meter. I need to bite the bullet and just spend it :/ Some general rules of thumb that I've found with mb bombshell into d2 into b3: the further away from their center of mass the faster you recover and easier the d2, b3 is, coming down on top of their heads makes it super hard to convert, it's much harder to do against crouching opponents. If I don't cross up on b1 mb bombshell, I don't go for d2,b3. If I do cross up, will typically go for it.
 

Skedar70

Noob
Some suggestions for making Donnie more viable:

1. Decrease the recovery of his trait.
2. Make the projectile absorbing gadget give Donnie half a bar of meter when it absorbs a projectile. (Currently its just better to turtle a projectile than to use this gadget.
3. Make the projectile absorbing gadget last longer than the other ones.
4. Increase the damage of the non jump gadget
5. Make the strength of the pull gadget stronger.