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General/Other - Flame Fists Does Flame Fist have a true blockstring ?

Hey guys, im looking into learning Flame Fist Liu Kang after the changes in the most recent patch. I have been told that f213 wp xx sf f213 wp xx sf - whatever ender is a true blockstring. But i cant seem to get it without the AI being able to reverse it in practise. Am i just not doing it fast enough / with the right timing, or was what i heard false ? Thanks
 

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
Hey guys, im looking into learning Flame Fist Liu Kang after the changes in the most recent patch. I have been told that f213 wp xx sf f213 wp xx sf - whatever ender is a true blockstring. But i cant seem to get it without the AI being able to reverse it in practise. Am i just not doing it fast enough / with the right timing, or was what i heard false ? Thanks
f213 sf f213 db2 is a true blockstring, what you're describing is not. Wp canceled into sf is punishable. Anything after wp also has a gap.
 

Devin Thorn

chimp damage
Hey guys, im looking into learning Flame Fist Liu Kang after the changes in the most recent patch. I have been told that f213 wp xx sf f213 wp xx sf - whatever ender is a true blockstring. But i cant seem to get it without the AI being able to reverse it in practise. Am i just not doing it fast enough / with the right timing, or was what i heard false ? Thanks
It is a true block string, tested countless times on Cassie's flip kick, sub's slide, Lao's Spin. When you input SF you need to already be inputting the next f213 for it to come out and keep em blocking! Hope that helps
 

Devin Thorn

chimp damage
Even low fireball? I mean I know it's punishable but is there a gap?
Low fireball will get punished if they block it yes. You need to end in ex DF to not get punished after the WP or end in a parry if you know the MU
Also if you ex the WP it seems the push back makes punishing difficult at times
 

Devin Thorn

chimp damage
Actually forgot about that one, need to check as I can't remember.
I've been getting punished in practice mode trying to end the WP in low fb. I'm pretty sure only ex DR after the WP makes it safe. Obviously parry is viable but you could get blown up bad trying it. I think there's a gap after the WP where they can jump out to avoid the DR and I think it can be crouched as well
 

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
I've been getting punished in practice mode trying to end the WP in low fb. I'm pretty sure only ex DR after the WP makes it safe. Obviously parry is viable but you could get blown up bad trying it. I think there's a gap after the WP where they can jump out to avoid the DR and I think it can be crouched as well
He's referring to a frame gap after wp if it's canceled into low fb, not whether it's punishable on block. EX DP is not safe as it has a gap.
 

Devin Thorn

chimp damage
He's referring to a frame gap after wp if it's canceled into low fb, not whether it's punishable on block. EX DP is not safe as it has a gap.
You mean ex Dragons Roar? I thought that was safe to cancel into after a WP unless it's something like Goro's punch walk
 

Pan1cMode

AUS FGC represent!
You mean ex Dragons Roar? I thought that was safe to cancel into after a WP unless it's something like Goro's punch walk
It has a gap that can be reversaled out of. Regular slides like sub zero's or reptile's actually just phase through it.
 

Devin Thorn

chimp damage
It has a gap that can be reversaled out of. Regular slides like sub zero's or reptile's actually just phase through it.
I'm well aware of this, that however would be the definition of safe as you are taking no damage in those situations. If someone like Lao or Cassie try using their super fast reversal and you cancel WP into ex Dragons Roar they just ate 15% plus the 10% from Dragon's Wraith. What phosferrax said is right you're only completely safe doing f213 SF f213 db2
 

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
I'm well aware of this, that however would be the definition of safe as you are taking no damage in those situations. If someone like Lao or Cassie try using their super fast reversal and you cancel WP into ex Dragons Roar they just ate 15% plus the 10% from Dragon's Wraith. What phosferrax said is right you're only completely safe doing f213 SF f213 db2
Not it if they delay they're reversal, or do s1 into reversal.
 

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
Good info thanks, hadn't thought of that. Lotta mind games and conditioning with this variation eh?
People like Derptile will have you believe that Liu Kang shouldn't ever be able to do stuff after WP, but that is not the case. Every action has a counter action, and it is reads based, as all of this happens to fast to see. The characters that don't have good armour get fucked by this, and most of the time a low profile move is the best answer, but is that really better than all the chip and meter build that he gets from it?
 

Devin Thorn

chimp damage
it'd be cool if someone came up with a guide on FF Liu Kang, for people interested in learning him and those that think he is impossible to handle post patch. As I'm learning him myself I appreciate you educating me as well dude!
 

Devin Thorn

chimp damage
People like Derptile will have you believe that Liu Kang shouldn't ever be able to do stuff after WP, but that is not the case. Every action has a counter action, and it is reads based, as all of this happens to fast to see. The characters that don't have good armour get fucked by this, and most of the time a low profile move is the best answer, but is that really better than all the chip and meter build that he gets from it?
Definitely. While there are gaps, in a live fast paced match vs a human (Very hard AI exploits shit I never thought possible lol) it is much easier said than done to deal with the pressure in this variation. He might not have a bunch of block strings but he can activate SF and act out of it quick as fuck and zone you out until you make a mistake that will get exploited for great damage
 

smokey

EX Ovi should launch
People like Derptile will have you believe that Liu Kang shouldn't ever be able to do stuff after WP, but that is not the case. Every action has a counter action, and it is reads based, as all of this happens to fast to see. The characters that don't have good armour get fucked by this, and most of the time a low profile move is the best answer, but is that really better than all the chip and meter build that he gets from it?
This is basically what im saying right now, Liu Kang when he touches you gets a blockstring into nearly 20% guaranteed chip and a full bar of meter off a jump in or low poke advantage, so you have to block the f213 and your other options are let go and standard breaker the f213, or Block breaker the f213 which both take 2 bars and your stamina is drained.

So he gets the string and a mixup which is mostly in his favour unless you have a 2 hitting armoured move, good fast reactions and can make a read on his parry every time. Meterless you cant armour his EX Roar (which is free after f213 from the meter gain) so it becomes a blockstring you can only low profile, but he can use low fireball in that situation to second guess your "best" option, so you are always on the back end of his wp mixup trying to make the best out of a shitty situation. Before they changed his WP you could punish it on block so he had to hitconfirm. Having his SF cancellable and + on block is fine i think, because its got a timer on it and its just a reskin of his DF fireball cancels, with a cool buff tied in. His zoning got improved but it was better in this variation already so allow it, its just now he gets meter and chip and a mixup for making you block, and he really can just throw it out whenever he has SF up because its such a good situation for him to condition you in.
 

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
This is basically what im saying right now, Liu Kang when he touches you gets a blockstring into nearly 20% guaranteed chip and a full bar of meter off a jump in or low poke advantage, so you have to block the f213 and your other options are let go and standard breaker the f213, or Block breaker the f213 which both take 2 bars and your stamina is drained.

So he gets the string and a mixup which is mostly in his favour unless you have a 2 hitting armoured move, good fast reactions and can make a read on his parry every time. Meterless you cant armour his EX Roar (which is free after f213 from the meter gain) so it becomes a blockstring you can only low profile, but he can use low fireball in that situation to second guess your "best" option, so you are always on the back end of his wp mixup trying to make the best out of a shitty situation. Before they changed his WP you could punish it on block so he had to hitconfirm. Having his SF cancellable and + on block is fine i think, because its got a timer on it and its just a reskin of his DF fireball cancels, with a cool buff tied in. His zoning got improved but it was better in this variation already so allow it, its just now he gets meter and chip and a mixup for making you block, and he really can just throw it out whenever he has SF up because its such a good situation for him to condition you in.
You don't need a two hitting armored move, as you only have to delay it to beat ex dragon's roar. Or just do s1 into armour. People who have launching armour can make Kang scared of doing ex dragon roar after WP, but it just sucks when he parries your armour. The punish is there and for someone like Raiden or Cage the end result is that Liu has lost net damage, but he does have options to beat those. Kang does make himself punishable on all his options, but there is no way that you're going to punish him all the time just because of that fact. Especially in a tournament setting.
 

smokey

EX Ovi should launch
You don't need a two hitting armored move, as you only have to delay it to beat ex dragon's roar. Or just do s1 into armour. People who have launching armour can make Kang scared of doing ex dragon roar after WP, but it just sucks when he parries your armour. The punish is there and for someone like Raiden or Cage the end result is that Liu has lost net damage, but he does have options to beat those. Kang does make himself punishable on all his options, but there is no way that you're going to punish him all the time just because of that fact. Especially in a tournament setting.
He makes you guess every time you block it though, while you lose 20% hp and he gains a bar BEFORE you have to guess to see if you make it out or not, I dont think hes really OP or anything but this sort of thing is kind of stupid to be forced to guess on the end of all the guaranteed crap. If he can get the chip and meter gain safely its broken, getting it and being punishable on block its pointless, but it leading to a mixup situation that is awkward for both parties makes it almost justifiable that he can do it, it just doesnt encourage much of a playstyle from flame fists other than going for pseudo-safe guaranteed stuff.
 

NurzBenny

Old Member
Played Zyphox last night at yomi for an hour and a half. This shit is pretty busted, but in a good way. There are gaps. But Liu touches you and it's bad news