Do Monitors Make That Big Of A Difference?

[d3v]

"Lost frames" aren't the issue. The real issue is that some TVs and monitors have input lag.

from: http://www.displaylag.com/what-is-input-lag-the-breakdown/

What is input lag?
Quite simply, its the delay between a button press on your controller and what results on the display. The amount of delay varies between different displays (and is one of the reasons this website was founded, to fight this ignorance), and it can be very hard to detect without lots of experience. Its also something that wasn’t easy to measure, due to the complications of old methods. Thankfully, we have a new method that simplifies this process.

How does it affect me?
Ever played Call of Duty, Halo, or maybe Street Fighter online? If you have, you probably know what a laggy connection feels like. But that’s not all that’s in play here. This feeling is amplified because of your display as well! Games like Call of Duty and Halo use netcode that hides input lag so your inputs stay responsive, but if there is lag, it affects what happens on the screen (other players jerking around, teleporting, frames dropping, etc), whereas a game like Street Fighter 4 causes input lag if the connection is laggy (this game has to keep frames v-synced due to the nature of the game). Imagine if Call of Duty or Halo had input lag on top of the de-syncing that occurs due to laggy connections. Not only are you having trouble keeping up with the action warping around the screen, but your controller is not responding as accurately as it should. Street Fighter 4 can nearly double or triple its input lag because of a bad display. A fighting game needs to have instant response times to react and execute combos. Now imagine variable input lag from a bad internet connection, and fixed input lag from a bad gaming display. Sounds horrible right? That combo that you would normally execute on an excellent display is now twice as hard to do on a bad display. That’s before we even set foot online with its variable connection tendencies.

Can I do anything to stop input lag?
If you already have a poor gaming display, there are some steps you can take to reduce input lag. I wrote a short guide on how to enable “Game Mode” on some of the major television brands. However, this doesn’t always produce the results you want. If you’re stuck in this situation, you will have to buy a new display that suits your needs. The biggest problem when choosing a display is how much you’re willing to compromise.

The best gaming displays are usually lower end monitors that aren’t designed for picture quality in mind, but they have the best input response and are ideal for playing games. If you want something nicer like a big HDTV, you are sacrificing some responsiveness for more features and a big screen. Thankfully, you aren’t sacrificing much when it comes to some HDTVs. Please refer to Display Lag’s grading scale, and check out the database for HDTVs with a GREATrating. These HDTVs will suit almost all of your gaming needs, unless you plan to compete in video game tournaments. EXCELLENT displays are suited for that application. I currently use an ASUS monitor for competitive gaming, and a Samsung HDTV for my regular watching and casual games.

 

[Trauma_and_Pain]

Not really, response time isn't tied to display lag, which is why certain monitors are preferred for fighting games. In an attempt to keep input lag reasonably low.

Display lag generally isn't listed by manufacturers.

Check out displaylag.com to see which monitors have low display lag.

That is a good point. I've experienced horrifying input lag on some older televisions for no apparent reason--like half a second or more.

 

[John the Savage]

Yeah a lot of misinformation at the start of this thread. Response time and refresh rate don't really matter as much as actual input lag.

Look at it this way.

1 frame is 16.67ms. Some monitors can achieve input lag as low as 5-10ms, while even the HDTVs with less input lag than most other HDTVs usually sit around 20-30ms of input lag. That's over a full frame more input lag than a monitor and that's if it's one of the best TVs you can get for input lag.

So if you try a combo with a 3 frame link on a tv with almost 2 full frames of input lag, if not more, it's going to feel almost impossible.

Try that same combo on a monitor with less than a frame of input lag and it's going to feel like you have all the time in the world compared to a TV.

 

[Pan1cMode]

It depends on how serious you are about mkx. A monitor is a pretty big purchase considering it's just a videogame but if you really wanna step it up then go for it!

You can get them for ~$100 if you go to the right place. Approximately the cost of 2 video games so not terribly expensive. Still s decent purchase though


Yes, display lag is a real issue. As someone who went from a TV to a monitor, you notice the difference immediately. If you intend to compete, I highly suggest a monitor because playing at that disadvantage is never fun.

 

[llabslb]

Oh absolutely. If you plan on going to tournaments you best believe.

I only recently started playing on a TV because I moved my console and I couldn't do any of my bnbs comfortably.

 

[Vjeekes]

if you need a good gaming monitor, check out this site:
http://www.displaylag.com/display-database/

 

[StiggyWiggs]

Hey guys just wanted to drop by and give some guys with hdtvs a heads up on something and it's a good alternative if you don't have money for a new monitor.

I recently discovered that my Samsung 4K tv has a mode called game mode which I had no idea existed, and apparently a lot of hdtvs have this feature. It makes your game practically lag free (but it takes a small hit in picture quality) and is a must for playing mkx. I found this feature and tried it for the first time yesterday and it feels amazing being able to actually react to things. The best way I can describe the difference is comparing it to playing on mkx vs mkxl netcode.


Here's a link if you're having trouble finding the game mode option on your tv. http://www.displaylag.com/how-to-enable-game-mode-on-your-hdtv/

 

[big j gleez]

I dropped so many combos my first live tournament. I used to play on a 52 inch LCD. I immediately went out and bought a Ben Q when I got home. My TV was extremely high quality and actually faster than the Ben Q, it was more the size of the tv that was the issue. It was very odd to play on such a small monitor. I love it now though.

You have to remember also that consoles can only refresh at 60 hz and run at 60 fps. You don't need to spend a boat load of money on a high end monitor if you are only playing consoles on it. Nothing more than 250-300.

Also the speakers suck on monitors so be prepared to spend money on speakers or use a head set.

 

[C88_Real_Harris]

I've been meaning to make a similar thread for a while but kept on forgetting. Game mode on my tv is sooo ugly so I don't use it.
Any monitors out there reasonably price that still give good picture and low imput lag ?

You can get a 24 inch Benq on Amazon for around $130.

 

[Matix218]

I never played MKX on my 50 inch LED tv till a month ago. It has a "game mode" that doesn't lag too match but it still noticeably lags more than my Asus computer monitor I bought in 2011 after my first Evo for MK9 where I got top 16.

MKX looks 10000x better on my tv than my monitor but getting rid of that lag is worth it.

Same, I bought the asus monitor that was the evo standard back in mk9 days and the difference between that and any tv that I have played on is drastic. Well worth the money imo

 

[Synesthesia Z]

Dude i own a BenQ monitor 144HZ but no reason to use it for fighting games for the game itself is running on 60fps. Got my displayport hooked up to my PC for shooters often DO offer options to play with higher fps. For my XBone i use the regular HDMI cable cause again, for the reasons being mentioned above

 

[Lord Beef]

It absolutely makes a difference. I would argue to say the difference is as big as playing offline for the first time after only playing online. I play on a monitor and have since 2011, and if I try to play on my living room TV, I can not land anything. It feels like I am playing online when on my TV

 

[Tanno]

Well, this TV stuff for the high gaming stuff is only for those graphic detail enthusiasts.

If you want to play a game on your new TV, you'll most likely need to watch for the latency the TV gets from the picture. If the latency is bigger, then it's not worth for gaming. The best companies are Sony and Samsung. The 60fps depends from the game itself. The TV can provide only the latency of the picture and its quality.

If you got beaten up by some high leveled combatants, then train your ass in the practice and in the online matches.

 

[cR Xarakamaka]

if you play a cancel character and change to a monitor or even a slightly delayed monitor then you wont be able to do anything really untill you adapt to it .

 

[Synesthesia Z]

It absolutely makes a difference. I would argue to say the difference is as big as playing offline for the first time after only playing online. I play on a monitor and have since 2011, and if I try to play on my living room TV, I can not land anything. It feels like I am playing online when on my TV

If this replied to what i said than let me clarify i only considered monitors for their latency automatically is much smaller than with a TV. I would also advise to switch from TV to monitor for gaming. But my point whas that it's no use to buy a 120/144hz monitor for a game that caps at 60 making it so you'll still get 60 fps even if you're monitor plays on 120/144, just like how you still watch a YT vid at 60 fps even if they recorded the gameplay on 120/144 fps. And correct me when i'm wrong for assuming consoles cap at 60 fps so ultimately those 120/144hz monitors are not worth the buy when you don't play PC games and also those games that actually do support higher frames. So if that's not your case i'd suggest not spending the extra money on those higher frame rate monitors and just get a 60hz one if you're gaming on a TV. And if you didn't know, fps has nothing to do with latency for both 144-and 60hz can have an equally fast response time. Sorry for the misimpressions, but hope i clarified my point now

 

[Gooberking]

I never really thought much about how far behind the game a TV could be until recently. I played close to 400 hours on the PC version then bought a ps4 not too long ago (cuz of the online and all).

I hooked up the ps4 to my TV and instantly said "this isn't going to work." Things seemed to get better when I switched my Hori pad I had been using on PC into actual ps4 mode, but I still had to do something about it. No way was I going to play like that. I ended up just getting a monitor that was well liked and on sale for only a $100. I don't know what the stats are on it, but It was dramatically better. I would probably have to pay a lot more to do any better, so I'm satisfied I think..

Still can't get used to playing +80ms online matches. Most run +120ms for me which hurts my soul, but there's no buying my way out of that lag reality.

**typo

 

[IrishMantis]

Short answer : yes sir it definitely does at a high level 100%

Long answer: ye

 

[Israel]

Those who own a Ben Q...

Im looking toward buying one, however 1 hesitant feel i get is that most tournaments use ASUS instead of BenQ. If benQ is better (not saying it is), why isnt this played on instead? Do you guys feel any difference from playing from your monitor to a tournament Asus monitor ?

*Just want to make sure i dont get conditioned to playing on a great monitor, only to go to a tournament to feel the lag difference*

 

[MadeOfMetal]

having had one for cloise to 6 months now. Yes they do make all tyhe differenc ein the world. and Online ohh yeah.

I was getting close to 6 frames of lag with my Toshiba 1080p high def TV Flatscreen.

now that i have ASUS gaming monitor at 1ms response and 1ms Input Delay time. i Have no lag. and when i play online i feel like i get first hit every match and always get the hit before hand.


on my TV i felt like i was Lagging when i had 120ms connections, this is because your TV can add up to 70MS input dealy as well as your delay from internet connection like 200ms in game connection that will equal: 16 frames of lag.

you can divide your ms by 16.67 on a 60FPS game or video and on a 30FPS display you divide your MS by 33.3


I reccomend getting my ( Click Me ASUS VS278Q-P 27" Gaming Monitor 1ms/1ms Click Me)

On display LAg .com they describe that there are two different MS things to worrie about, there is Screen Response time which will be displayed in [MS response time] aqnd then there is TV/Monitor [Input Delay] which is also displayed in MS

Acceptable ranges for Gaming Tournaments is below 8ms Input Delay and below 5ms Response.

definitely look at Displaylag.com to find one in your specs and price range, and weed out the toasters.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

Just occurred to me I can buy a cheap Pre Owned PS4 just for MKXL then set it up in the spare room like a Desk Top. I'll look into it with a monitor and headset after Christmas.

that won't work, because the Ram and V-chip inside PS4/XBOX1 do not support Windows. and the specs will not support running applications in the basckground, like multiple ones as well as playing games. cuz they are built different and run different that a traditional Linux/Windows PC.

I only tell you because i have tried this and it does not work with the new GEN systems like it did with Xbox 360.


thats why Gaming Computers cost thousands, because they have Better technology inside that allows for more uses. An Xbox or PS4 basically only does 3 main apps at a time, and the way that ram is dual linked is different than hopw Windows Gaming PC's work, there parts are built for Productivity/Programs/Multiple background applications and keys running at the same time while still communicating with CPU and GPU and retrieving anything they need from RAM and HDD/SDD/RAID.

get a PS3 and jail break it and you will ahve a gaming PC or 2 Xbox 360's and you will be AOK. as long as you find a way to upgrade the Graphics Processing Unit's with there limited Motherboards. maybe you can Solder a thunderbolt type of Connection port to the back, and have an External Alienware box that holds a Desktop style GPU like thius:

i only know of this cuz i have ALienWare new Laptop and Desktop. the R2 version with new Skylake CPU and the New DDR4 Ram. even though people think DDR4 is not funtioning as well as DDR3 they well be surprized when Microsoft updates all drivers and DDR4 becomes the new standard it will Blow DDR3 out of the water.


this is the Alienware Amplifier:

and when its open:

thats right Laptops with the capability to upgrade with the times and have the power of Desktops. there is not a game around that my Alienware R2 can not run close to max settings.

my Alienware R2: Open Lit up

Half Closed lit up

My Alienware R2 in daylight: closed to see the Stealth Fighter/Bomber architecture:

 

[Israel]

having had one for cloise to 6 months now. Yes they do make all tyhe differenc ein the world. and Online ohh yeah.

I was getting close to 6 frames of lag with my Toshiba 1080p high def TV Flatscreen.

now that i have ASUS gaming monitor at 1ms response and 1ms Input Delay time. i Have no lag. and when i play online i feel like i get first hit every match and always get the hit before hand.


on my TV i felt like i was Lagging when i had 120ms connections, this is because your TV can add up to 70MS input dealy as well as your delay from internet connection like 200ms in game connection that will equal: 16 frames of lag.

you can divide your ms by 16.67 on a 60FPS game or video and on a 30FPS display you divide your MS by 33.3


I reccomend getting my ( Click Me ASUS VS278Q-P 27" Gaming Monitor 1ms/1ms Click Me)

On display LAg .com they describe that there are two different MS things to worrie about, there is Screen Response time which will be displayed in [MS response time] aqnd then there is TV/Monitor [Input Delay] which is also displayed in MS

Acceptable ranges for Gaming Tournaments is below 8ms Input Delay and below 5ms Response.

definitely look at Displaylag.com to find one in your specs and price range, and weed out the toasters.

I think i may go with you. But do u know if the benq monitors are more recommended or if same par with asus?


If your expierence with this monitor is this good..i may go with ur option. 27" isnt too big..is it? Thats about standard size for monitors right?

 

[MadeOfMetal]

I think i may go with you. But do u know if the benq monitors are more recommended or if same par with asus?


If your expierence with this monitor is this good..i may go with ur option. 27" isnt too big..is it? Thats about standard size for monitors right?

bigger than standard, from what salsman told me was standard monitors was 23" but i wanted close to my old tv that was 32" so i got the 27" for the price its better to get 27" than 30+".


only 2 things you need to worrie about is response time is below 2ms, and monitor Input delay is below 10ms.
And BTW they do not tell you about the INPUT DELAY on box or salesman will not even know about it. he will just tell you its 1ms/2ms and he will think that means INPUT DELAY but that is actually SCREEN RESPONSE TIME which is also important.


and then make sure it has built in speakers. i copught one before that didn't have speakers it was a BenQ.


my [CLICK ME ASUS VS278Q-P CLICK ME] was on sale at amazon for 170 ish.. (at the time) and it has 2 speakers built in FULL HD 1080p display/ 1MS by 1MS response and Input delay 27"... can't get better than that.


there was other choices but i wanted to spoend on a budget below $200.00



List of all monitors you can for sure know are professional gaming grade:

i will list all brand and model name these are all the 27" ones:


Brand | Input Delay | 27"ers
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
LG 27EA33V 9ms input delay
ASUS MX279H 9ms
Samsung S27B750V 10ms
LG 27EA63V 10ms
Lenovo LI2721S 10ms
HP 27XI 10ms
BenQ XL2720Z 10ms
BenQ RL2755HM 10ms
ASUS VS278Q 10ms | older version of mine
ASUS VE278H 10ms
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




So you understand anything 10ms and belopw on Input Delay is Professional grade for tournament, 60FPS games like MKXL convert 16.67ms to make a single Frame of lag, and 10 is below 1 frame of lag thus TV/Monitor lag with these choices are none exsistant.

Look at this link: http://www.displaylag.com/display-database/

there you can check out with the tab bars above and refine your search for a cheaper 23" or different size to find the best one for you. just look where it says lag on the chart and make sure its below 10.

 

[Darth-Nero]

I lost my 1st tournament because of the input delay, i dropped every cancel and by the time i started to adapt i was out of the pools. Tournament was on Widescreen tv and i am used to monitors, I had no idea about input delay back then and didn't know what to do. I thought Raiden betrayed me then.

May i ask how to get red of input delay on widescreens TVs? Does switching to gamemode help?

 

[Marinjuana]

+Darth_Nero

I find it does help quite a bit. I think it's the whole idea of it but I'd guess that it's not perfect.

There is a significant drop in quality, most notably in the sound department. On my TV anyway.

 

[Darth-Nero]

+Darth_Nero

I find it does help quite a bit. I think it's the whole idea of it but I'd guess that it's not perfect.

There is a significant drop in quality, most notably in the sound department. On my TV anyway.

I can hardly care about sound or picture quality compared to dropping my run cancels and losing lol. I'll run it on toaster quality if it means timing will be consistent =)