Do characters need more depth?

[Marinjuana]

Yet your still complaining that you can’t use customs.

C'mon dude it's a competitive MK site. It's about ranked and the tournament standards

 

[Jay Rupp]

The characters are fine. It's ridiculous how many people think they've "learned" a character just because they've memorized their moves list and learned a few combos. I'm willing to bet the poll reflects that same ignorance.
MK11 has more depth than the majority of recent fighters. The only real exceptions I can think of is T7, GGXR2 and MAYBE SF5. All of which were created before the latest unified attempt to make fighting games easier.

 

[Pizza]

You guys realize you can use customs in player match right ?

lmao look at this dude trying to play smart guy. Boy, the next word that comes out of your mouth better be some brilliant fuckin' Mark Twain shit. 'Cause it's definitely getting chiseled on your tombstone.

 

[Bliss]

No: I like the simplicity. My job is complex enough, I don't want to have to study for hours to play a video game.

 

[DixieFlatline78]

Maybe.

Every fighting game starts off with people saying it's too simple. Happened with every Street Fighter since 2, happened with Tekken 7. DBFZ was the only game that I ever saw people say had hidden depth early on. Then it turned out to just be Beam xx Vanish xx Snapback xx Air Dash Mixup

 

[xKMMx]

Not a single person on this site knew that champ this is news to us all

Call CNN this is breaking news lol.

 

[John Grizzly]

The depth is there, it's just hidden behind the custom moves. The day they figure out how to implement them into competitive play and ranked will make it an entirely new game.

 

[xKMMx]

I'm relatively new to playing fighting games the way they are intended to be played. I started as a kid with SF2 and the first 3 MK's. Back then though I was basically a masher that felt like I was the man if I could pull off specials. After UMK3 I dabbled here and there with fighting games like Tekken and DOA but left them alone for the most part so I'm no expert.

MKX is the first game I ever truly learned and I learned about everything, frame data, why things do or do not link in combos, mechanics, some fundamentals and why you need to have match up knowledge. Because of that ill always be a super huge mark for MKX.

All that being said... yea I feel like MK11 is a little dry for me personally. I know a lot of purist and long time fighting game players fell like its a great game. I personally feel like right now its a little frustrating and boring due to lack of options to open up opponents and my personal lack of whiff punishing skill and not having 50/50's.

Id probably feel different if I didn't learn strategy in a rushdown mix up game like MKX. But I am having a pretty good time learning these fundamentals and trying to apply them to this game in the way they are supposed to be. I'm getting frustrated at times because there are characters in the game that don't have to mind the rules of neutral so learning that against those characters is kinda out the window when your playing as Noob Saibot.

I do feel characters need more depth as even characters like Sonya (that everyone hates playing against) really only took an hour or two in practice mode to learn how to defend against. It was a nightmare match up the first time I had to play against her and now I know all I really have to do is block her pop up string with the over head and punish it against most sonya players cause that's her main game plan. And as for my main it seems every one already knows just crouch block all day and you'll never get hit.

 

[DarkSado]

This game will get stale pretty quickly without custom variations. I honestly got slightly bored with the meta until i started experimenting with customs and really am enjoying it again <3

C'mon dude it's a competitive MK site. It's about ranked and the tournament standards

I mean his right though.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Thinking you need artificial engineered 'depth' to make a fighting game experience deep is the mark of a player who hasn't been around very long.

Unless you're already playing the game at the absolute highest level, there's likely a ton of depth/subtlety that you're missing and it's part of the reason why others are better than you.

 

[Hellbringer]

You guys complaing about the game too easy but dont want custom variations to be allowed because its too much work. Seems abit contradictive...

 

[xKMMx]

Thinking you need artificial engineered 'depth' to make a fighting game experience deep is the mark of a player who hasn't been around very long.

Unless you're already playing the game at the absolute highest level, there's likely a ton of depth/subtlety that you're missing and it's part of the reason why others are better than you.

Its a good point. That's why I'm still playing. Trying to find people that play legit and at high level to kick my ass until I can kick theirs.

 

[Evil Canadian]

They should add Hydro to the game he's as deep as the ocean

 

[Jay Rupp]

lmao look at this dude trying to play smart guy. Boy, the next word that comes out of your mouth better be some brilliant fuckin' Mark Twain shit. 'Cause it's definitely getting chiseled on your tombstone.

That's definitely from a movie. I just can't think of the name..

 

[Pizza]

That's definitely from a movie. I just can't think of the name..

Yeah! The Devil's Rejects. Love it

 

[angry bruiser]

The characters are fine. It's ridiculous how many people think they've "learned" a character just because they've memorized their moves list and learned a few combos. I'm willing to bet the poll reflects that same ignorance.
MK11 has more depth than the majority of recent fighters. The only real exceptions I can think of is T7, GGXR2 and MAYBE SF5. All of which were created before the latest unified attempt to make fighting games easier.

that's wrong. the big "unified push" to make fighting games easier started specifically with sfv. there hasn't been any "change" since that point that mk is suddenly the pivot point of. sfv, tekken and rev2 all were specifically designed with mechanics to bring new players in (sfv more than the others and this was specifically stated as a goal.)

so no, in lieu of the 'simplification' of fighting games mk11 is just the latest in a long line. if you somehow try to make the argument that mk11 is part of a new "unified attempt," then i'd like you to tell me which games came out after t7, rev2 and sf5 that was super complex and aimed at not catering to newer players. this is because if it started with sfv/t7/whatever, and then was "restarted" with mk11, there needs to be a gap in-between there.

Thinking you need artificial engineered 'depth' to make a fighting game experience deep is the mark of a player who hasn't been around very long.

Unless you're already playing the game at the absolute highest level, there's likely a ton of depth/subtlety that you're missing and it's part of the reason why others are better than you.

all fighting games have artificially engineered depth by definition. they're designed by humans with specific ideas. if they didn't have artificially engineered depth, the alternative is to have randomly engineered depth, which basically means the devs throw darts blindly and hope they make a good game, which wouldn't be indicative of a good developer.

guilty gear is "artificially engineered" to the point that OSes are integrated and planned as part of the design of the game & system itself. so saying fighting games don't have artificially engineered depth is the mark of a player who doesn't understand fighters at all. especially given you're saying complete nonsense anyways. in this game after your day1 training mode session (where your 'ok' day1 combos turn out to be the optimal ones BTW) there is nothing left to learn about your character.

after that point it's only about drilling timings (i.e. getting your 1f links down so you can jail into highs, or drilling your flawless block timings) and punishment timings. those are the only things that still can be "practiced" in training mode and then the only thing you've got left is playing the game. in this game you get 2-3 options, and then you get to do them over and over and you can get better timing at doing it.

all other fighters have significantly more layers to them. if other fighting games are chess, then mk11 is rock-paper-scissors.

 

[Kitana Fan]

No, I'm pretty happy with it currently. Every character has a decent amount of combos and special moves, so I'm fine. One thing I would change is just remove the variation system, but we would need to wait until MK12 for that, if they do.

 

[xKMMx]

That's definitely from a movie. I just can't think of the name..

Devils rejects. Dude that said is clearly a psycho.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

that's wrong. the big "unified push" to make fighting games easier started specifically with sfv. there hasn't been any "change" since that point that mk is suddenly the pivot point of. sfv, tekken and rev2 all were specifically designed with mechanics to bring new players in (sfv more than the others and this was specifically stated as a goal.)

so no, in lieu of the 'simplification' of fighting games mk11 is just the latest in a long line. if you somehow try to make the argument that mk11 is part of a new "unified attempt," then i'd like you to tell me which games came out after t7, rev2 and sf5 that was super complex and aimed at not catering to newer players. this is because if it started with sfv/t7/whatever, and then was "restarted" with mk11, there needs to be a gap in-between there.


all fighting games have artificially engineered depth by definition. they're designed by humans with specific ideas. if they didn't have artificially engineered depth, the alternative is to have randomly engineered depth, which basically means the devs throw darts blindly and hope they make a good game, which wouldn't be indicative of a good developer.

guilty gear is "artificially engineered" to the point that OSes are integrated and planned as part of the design of the game & system itself. so saying fighting games don't have artificially engineered depth is the mark of a player who doesn't understand fighters at all. especially given you're saying complete nonsense anyways. in this game after your day1 training mode session (where your 'ok' day1 combos turn out to be the optimal ones BTW) there is nothing left to learn about your character.

after that point it's only about drilling timings (i.e. getting your 1f links down so you can jail into highs, or drilling your flawless block timings) and punishment timings. those are the only things that still can be "practiced" in training mode and then the only thing you've got left is playing the game. in this game you get 2-3 options, and then you get to do them over and over and you can get better timing at doing it.

all other fighters have significantly more layers to them. if other fighting games are chess, then mk11 is rock-paper-scissors.

You completely misread what I said. I didn’t say that you can’t have intentionally programmed depth in a FG. I said that thinking that you need it to have a deep FG experience is the mark of someone who hasn’t been around long.

Because fighting game metas have been deep long before anything like a developer-tuned OS was even a thing.