Question - Sub-Zero Deleted Account.

[Dankster Morgan]

1 frame difference, what's the difference

Actually a lot for punishing attack. 1 frame is the difference between punishing alien flip or not.

 

[xrzxrazor]

Aa with clone on reaction?
Leave the sub zero forums and never return

Im sorry that u cant position yourself propperly to clone when they jump. I do it when i play sub zero and people do it against me when im against sub zero, and like i said, if ur positioning isnt right when they jump, s1 works too, or u could do ex ice burst into slide.

 

[boba_buster]

Im sorry that u cant position yourself propperly to clone when they jump. I do it when i play sub zero and people do it against me when im against sub zero, and like i said, if ur positioning isnt right when they jump, s1 works too, or u could do ex ice burst into slide.

You said on reaction , if you clone to the reaction of them jumping at you they will be so close by the time the clone try's to come out it'll whiff and you will get hit. Get outta here with that Breh.

 

[ando1184]

Universal changes: d1 8f start up, d2 9f start up

Ice burst to have a better hitbox to use it as a more reliable AA

Unbreakable: better recovery on parry and instant recovery when used to parry projectiles, Auras grant additional meter build while blocking attacks or regular aura grants a dmg reduction.

Idk enough about cryo and GM so no comments there.

 

[Lokheit]

Make cryo's air hammer a overhead for instand air overheads and ex pop up. Make d2 3 frames faster and maybe give him a ice sword string for a lil bit more range.

And nerf the grandmaster downplayers

The Hammer is already an overhead (2 hits OH-Mid, but you only get to see both connecting in the corner mostly) but yeah something has to be done about the move. No real use on its current state.

And yup, having a string starting with the sword would mean a lot for the character. Most strings only reach on the second hit, which is fine with GM, but Cryo needs the reach at a good speed. F122 without the F1 part would be amazing as a safe check tool with big hit advantage.

 

[crosshair271]

The Hammer is already an overhead (2 hits OH-Mid, but you only get to see both connecting in the corner mostly) but yeah something has to be done about the move. No real use on its current state.

And yup, having a string starting with the sword would mean a lot for the character. Most strings only reach on the second hit, which is fine with GM, but Cryo needs the reach at a good speed. F122 without the F1 part would be amazing as a safe check tool with big hit advantage.

Why not just make the F1 part another sword slice? 3 sword slices and speed up the F1 for Cryo.

 

[jass_kion]

With there not being an announcement of kp3 at evo, do you guys still think there will be another patch for Mkxl??

 

[Lokheit]

Why not just make the F1 part another sword slice? 3 sword slices and speed up the F1 for Cryo.

That animation with a sword would look weird to be honest (the way the arm points down the sword would collide with the floor). And the reason why I say they should recycle the other 2 hits as a new string is that I know they've done that before (for example with Kenshi, they extended a string using components of a existing one) while modifying animations would require more work from the team (at this point in development, if there are changes, it's probably going to be cheap ones).

 

[Tanno]

GM: cooldown doubled on clone destroyed by projectile. No, tripled.

How about hastening the cooldown? This would fix the whiff.

 

[xrzxrazor]

You said on reaction , if you clone to the reaction of them jumping at you they will be so close by the time the clone try's to come out it'll whiff and you will get hit. Get outta here with that Breh.

try it on all chars, if u position it right, vs alot of characters their jump in will whiff and fall into a clone.

 

[n1kosh]

Shield Now Anti Airs

I think this is the most important

 

[ChoseDeath]

Im sorry that u cant position yourself propperly to clone when they jump. I do it when i play sub zero and people do it against me when im against sub zero, and like i said, if ur positioning isnt right when they jump, s1 works too, or u could do ex ice burst into slide.

I absolutely do not believe you for a second. I'd love to see you do that to me. The people you play must be horrendous

 

[rubmytaco]

try it on all chars, if u position it right, vs alot of characters their jump in will whiff and fall into a clone.

That is extremely inconsistent and has bitten me in the ass more times than it has actually worked. Also, how does Sub not need a faster poke? Unless he has meter, he has nothing to contest some characters' strings into pokes or straight up poke mashing.

 

[boba_buster]

try it on all chars, if u position it right, vs alot of characters their jump in will whiff and fall into a clone.

I would love to see some gameplay footage of u doing this

 

[Tanno]

You can do the Ice Klone against their jump attack, ONLY if you do this earlier at the earlier jumping frames. If they get close to you, then SZ whiffs. Even with EX Ice Klone SZ still whiffs, if they get close to you. This is one of those I want fixed.

The other is the 47% corner combo that I want the hitboxes being fixed for the Ice Klone and to make the cooldown down to 2s. This would fix the whiffs there. Sometimes this combo works only if the juggled char is almost on the ground (meaning to where the B12 punches are hitting on). The proper whiff is when you have already frozen your opponent.

The system knows that once you freeze your opponent, it won't let you freeze him/her again, thus whiff on the iceball and the ice klone.

This is the only thing that they need to fix Subby and he'll be OK for the MKXL MUs.

 

[boba_buster]

You can do the Ice Klone against their jump attack, ONLY if you do this earlier at the earlier jumping frames. If they get close to you, then SZ whiffs. Even with EX Ice Klone SZ still whiffs, if they get close to you. This is one of those I want fixed.

The other is the 47% corner combo that I want the hitboxes being fixed for the Ice Klone and to make the cooldown down to 2s. This would fix the whiffs there. Sometimes this combo works only if the juggled char is almost on the ground (meaning to where the B12 punches are hitting on). The proper whiff is when you have already frozen your opponent.

The system knows that once you freeze your opponent, it won't let you freeze him/her again, thus whiff on the iceball and the ice klone.

This is the only thing that they need to fix Subby and he'll be OK for the MKXL MUs.

It really only works if you do it as a read , as in you think they are going to jump so you clone first , once you see the jump animation begin its already to late to clone , unless they are really far away and wernt gonna reach you with the jump in anyway

 

[Sunny_D]

I think this is the most important

If you mean his parry, hell no lol. No parry should anti air both overhead, mid,lows plus the sky. Only ground attacks because if he can do it from everyangle plus his chip reduction and ex plus frames he would be broke as fuck. Only xray parries should do that shit. Only thing his parry needs is to have ex version be 1 frame start up and to have less recovery from parrying projectiles

 

[n1kosh]

less recovery from parrying projectiles

i agree

 

[blue dragon]

i like to see a faster d1 and a faster projectile for cryomancer

How about a faster b33, or a basic move with positive block adv. faster IB's like you said

 

[conqueror]

How about a faster b33, or a basic move with positive block adv. faster IB's like you said

I dont really see b33 speed a problem, since he has a overhead starter too (and he can use both with a jump in). As you said, something with block adv works too, or just give him a faster d1 and he uses his dagger to do it , or they can give him a better ice ball, liu kang has different fireballs in his different variations, they can do the same for cryomancer

 

[blue dragon]

Actually a lot for punishing attack. 1 frame is the difference between punishing alien flip or not.

Very well put, a single frame can mean the difference between having to continue to block(due to a safe move)or being able to dish out a full kombo punish

 

[thlityoursloat]

Grandmaster is trashhhhh.. here's my list on how to make him barely viable:
-B2 is +5 on block, because CLEARLY it was designed to be a big leg style move, look at how hard he slams you
-ice ball is now 10 frames because his zoning sux
-ice clone doesn't go away ever
-ice clone is now 4 frames startup
-d3 is +10 on block
-d4 has full screen pushback
-he has sonya's grenades
-he has alien's tail
-he has d'vorah's ovipostors
-b3 is 1 frame
-d1 is the fastest move in the game
-slide has decreased recovery on whiff

 

[ILuvFightGames]

GM: cooldown doubled on clone destroyed by projectile. No, tripled.

What does cool down do? What's its purpose?

 

[DarksydeDash]

What people are failing to understand because they are blind by hatred for GM is that, believe it or not, Sub also has two other variants. These variants desperately need something, particularly meter building specials which obviously GM has in the form of the clone. Now these variants share universal strings that are clearly not meant to be played without the clone, hence why they are extremely negative. So, because of this design choice, GM is going to be buffed in someway whether you like it or not. Examples could include: less damage scaling, safe strings, safer/faster specials, less recovery, etc. Now again, keep in mind these changes made to Unbreakable and Cryomancer are there to buff those particular variations, GM will just have to be along for the ride. The only way around this would be specifically "nerf" GM in some way, such as longer cooldown on the clone or less hit advantage on f12. You get the idea. One thing is for sure though, Sub's GM varition could easily emerge top tier with the buffs made to his other variations, and the only thing to blame would be the horrible design choice by NRS.