Question - Shirai Ryu Dealing with Shirai Ryu as Ninjutsu?

[Deadlywolf]

Jesus dude, why is Takeda SO safe on everything?

My b2 gets punished by his f12 2+4 all the time and its so hard to play footsies with this guy.

And his d3 recovers at the speed of light, I can't whiff punish that move even if my life depended on it.

On wakeup this guy is a nightmare. He can bait out the ex teleport with d3. I'll armor through d3 but he will recover fast enough to block the ex teleport. I do try to use takeout sometimes but the reward is only average but the risk is horrible. If I try to delay wake up they can just autopilot right into f12 2+4.

I sometimes get good results doing a teleport cancel from behind. But it gets blowned up by njp every once in a while.

What do I need to do to not make this match up feel like 1-9 sometimes?

 

[Thatoneguybro]

Lashers biggest problem is he has to commit and all his normals are crazy punishable on whiff. You have to be very patient in this MU and get him to throw out a normal and you can Teleport on him every time or whiff punish. He has no teleport Cancel in lasher so he has to commit to being unsafe. As a lasher player I find it annoying fighting ninj scorp due to him being able to whiff punish everything. Gotta play slow and safe and just stay out of his normal range and bait him to whiff a button. takeda cant do much from full screen but kunai or tornado kick and they are easy to read.

 

[Deadlywolf]

Lashers biggest problem is he has to commit and all his normals are crazy punishable on whiff. You have to be very patient in this MU and get him to throw out a normal and you can Teleport on him every time or whiff punish. He has no teleport Cancel in lasher so he has to commit to being unsafe. As a lasher player I find it annoying fighting ninj scorp due to him being able to whiff punish everything. Gotta play slow and safe and just stay out of his normal range and bait him to whiff a button. takeda cant do much from full screen but kunai or tornado kick and they are easy to read.

Perhaps I haven't been fully taking advantage of Scorpions teleport.
It sounds like to me its better to go for a bait and whiff punish approach rather then trying to get in and play footsies or do offense/pressure.

I have had bad luck making his normals whiff though. Unless its a scrub Takeda player, the good ones I fight typically knows when to throw out b21 or f122 and not make it whiff too often.
There has been times where I correctly predicted when he was going to attack, I tried to do ex teleport but the whips from his normals caught me. Very aggravating and frustrating.

But ya, I do notice that when his normals whiff, they have really really bad recovery. On block he can make them all safe by doing that low kunai.

My previous general strategy was to contest and play footsies with him using f2 and b2. The results are great against bad to average Takeda players. But against really really really good ones they are very inefficient and I just lose most of the time..

I think my next general would be to play very conservative footsies, and try to make his normals whiff by teleporting behind him.
Edit: Maybe, when he starts looking for that teleport, that's a good time to go in and start some basic pressure or go for a throw.
I notice Takeda's air teleport is kinda ridiculous too. There has been times where I would jump back and he would hit me across the map and he convert off of it..

 

[Thatoneguybro]

Perhaps I haven't been fully taking advantage of Scorpions teleport.
It sounds like to me its better to go for a bait and whiff punish approach rather then trying to get in and play footsies or do offense/pressure.

I have had bad luck making his normals whiff though. Unless its a scrub Takeda player, the good ones I fight typically knows when to throw out b21 or f122 and not make it whiff too often.
There has been times where I correctly predicted when he was going to attack, I tried to do ex teleport but the whips from his normals caught me. Very aggravating and frustrating.

But ya, I do notice that when his normals whiff, they have really really bad recovery. On block he can make them all safe by doing that low kunai.

My previous general strategy was to contest and play footsies with him using f2 and b2. The results are great against bad to average Takeda players. But against really really really good ones they are very inefficient and I just lose most of the time..

I think my next general would be to play very conservative footsies, and try to make his normals whiff by teleporting behind him
I notice Takeda's air teleport is kinda ridiculous too. There has been times where I would jump back and he would hit me across the map and he convert off of it..

Yea the best way to fight lasher is from a distance because he has to come to you somehow. Dont do EX tele unless you are 100% sure its a punish. Just get that stamina and teleport behind and see how the Tak player is going to handle that. Its kind of hard because he has kunai and tornado flip so he dose not have to chase you but you can punish a kunai with a teleport. It's gotta be a read if you are not 100% sure just teleport behind and grab. tornado flip has like no armor or invul so you can D2 him out of it or make it whiff with a properly spaced njp or jumpback. Shiri is another story that teleport is so weird. Your D4 is really good I struggle to d3 or 4 scorpions cause the d4 pokes me every time.

 

[Deadlywolf]

Yea the best way to fight lasher is from a distance because he has to come to you somehow. Dont do EX tele unless you are 100% sure its a punish. Just get that stamina and teleport behind and see how the Tak player is going to handle that. Its kind of hard because he has kunai and tornado flip so he dose not have to chase you but you can punish a kunai with a teleport. It's gotta be a read if you are not 100% sure just teleport behind and grab. tornado flip has like no armor or invul so you can D2 him out of it or make it whiff with a properly spaced njp or jumpback. Shiri is another story that teleport is so weird. Your D4 is really good I struggle to d3 or 4 scorpions cause the d4 pokes me every time.

I didn't think about the tornado kick. Wow only -6 on block? So much stuff to worry about. I've been experimenting a little bit and Scorpions standing 3 can actually hit him out of the tornado kick. He can convert off of to and get a nice combo.
Ya, Scorpions D4 is really nice. But when it gets blocked he loses a lot of momentum because its -7. 99% of the time Takeda players will just do f12 after it. But maybe I can do blocked D4 into teleport cancel...hm...

 

[bdizzle2700]

@MrProfDrPepper

 

[KHTC Takgillo]

All u need to do is bait him and you ll be gold. that MU is not bad for scorpion If he runs to you to do b12 jump back the whips whiff on people jumping back when they aren t at their max height. And you don t need to fear the spin kick when u see it NJP on reaction or Jumpin3

 

[Thatoneguybro]

I didn't think about the tornado kick. Wow only -6 on block? So much stuff to worry about. I've been experimenting a little bit and Scorpions standing 3 can actually hit him out of the tornado kick. He can convert off of to and get a nice combo.
Ya, Scorpions D4 is really nice. But when it gets blocked he loses a lot of momentum because its -7. 99% of the time Takeda players will just do f12 after it. But maybe I can do blocked D4 into teleport cancel...hm...

if at anypoint you dont feel comfy dont be afraid to counter poke with d4 and special cancel into far away teleport to get your ground game back.

 

[MrProfDrPepper]

Yea the best way to fight lasher is from a distance because he has to come to you somehow. Dont do EX tele unless you are 100% sure its a punish. Just get that stamina and teleport behind and see how the Tak player is going to handle that. Its kind of hard because he has kunai and tornado flip so he dose not have to chase you but you can punish a kunai with a teleport. It's gotta be a read if you are not 100% sure just teleport behind and grab. tornado flip has like no armor or invul so you can D2 him out of it or make it whiff with a properly spaced njp or jumpback. Shiri is another story that teleport is so weird. Your D4 is really good I struggle to d3 or 4 scorpions cause the d4 pokes me every time.

First things first, your first advice of fighting him at a distance, bad advice, you have to be specific. Second off, ex tornado kick DOES have armor. But you are correct it has very little priority in the air, you can get more off a jip. Yes you can punish my kunai with teleport but I can bait that easily, the lasher match up is baiting me to throw out my normals and sliding out of that distance to make me whiff since although my normals are fucking incredible and are great zoning tools, that have god awful whiff recovery. Trust me. There is much more to this match up than you think.

 

[MrProfDrPepper]

I didn't think about the tornado kick. Wow only -6 on block? So much stuff to worry about. I've been experimenting a little bit and Scorpions standing 3 can actually hit him out of the tornado kick. He can convert off of to and get a nice combo.
Ya, Scorpions D4 is really nice. But when it gets blocked he loses a lot of momentum because its -7. 99% of the time Takeda players will just do f12 after it. But maybe I can do blocked D4 into teleport cancel...hm...

If you are on PlayStation add me and I am more than happy to teach you the nuances of lasher, but that doesn't mean that he will be any less deadly, he is a very good character and variation

 

[Thatoneguybro]

First things first, your first advice of fighting him at a distance, bad advice, you have to be specific. Second off, ex tornado kick DOES have armor. But you are correct it has very little priority in the air, you can get more off a jip. Yes you can punish my kunai with teleport but I can bait that easily, the lasher match up is baiting me to throw out my normals and sliding out of that distance to make me whiff since although my normals are fucking incredible and are great zoning tools, that have god awful whiff recovery. Trust me. There is much more to this match up than you think.

I'm jjst giving basic MU notes. I know ex flip

First things first, your first advice of fighting him at a distance, bad advice, you have to be specific. Second off, ex tornado kick DOES have armor. But you are correct it has very little priority in the air, you can get more off a jip. Yes you can punish my kunai with teleport but I can bait that easily, the lasher match up is baiting me to throw out my normals and sliding out of that distance to make me whiff since although my normals are fucking incredible and are great zoning tools, that have god awful whiff recovery. Trust me. There is much more to this match up than you think.

I know there is more to it but I was just giving a general Idea. Idk how good the lasher he is playing is and he seemed to find this helpful. If he told me "I tried that this lasher dose A,B, and C then I would be more indepth"

 

[MrProfDrPepper]

I'm jjst giving basic MU notes. I know ex flip

I know there is more to it but I was just giving a general Idea. Idk how good the lasher he is playing is and he seemed to find this helpful. If he told me "I tried that this lasher dose A,B, and C then I would be more indepth"

Alright fair enough, although I would like to mirror match and pummel that guy in the mirror because DAMN IT THAT IS MY CHARACTER. Me and @Vman are very defensive about lasher. That is my character damn it, and I guess ii can share... I guess... But only with vman.

 

[Thatoneguybro]

Alright fair enough, although I would like to mirror match and pummel that guy in the mirror because DAMN IT THAT IS MY CHARACTER. Me and @Vman are very defensive about lasher. That is my character damn it, and I guess ii can share... I guess... But only with vman.

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Lasher sucks Shirai master race!

*teleports away cause I have that and lasher dose not.

 

[MrProfDrPepper]

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Lasher sucks Shirai master race!

*teleports away cause I have that and lasher dose not.

Bitch please I don't need teleport, I can catch that shit easy with my 11 frame half screen normal

 

[Immortal Kombat]

Alright fair enough, although I would like to mirror match and pummel that guy in the mirror because DAMN IT THAT IS MY CHARACTER. Me and @Vman are very defensive about lasher. That is my character damn it, and I guess ii can share... I guess... But only with vman.

What am i? Chopped liver? =p
I also played lasher before it was cool lol

 

[MrProfDrPepper]

What am i? Chopped liver? =p
I also played lasher before it was cool lol

I played lasher before it was cool too. Although some would argue it still isn't cool.... And yes you are chopped liver <3 u 2

 

[Eddy Wang]

Use teleport cancel to force whiff on his normals, keep your distance to stay away from F1, be wary that being away from F1 will put you in Kunai's range as well as his disjointed overheads, this is where you should Run in (if Kunai is out), or teleport cancel (if overheads are coming)

Since lasher cannot teleport in this variation, he loses a good portion of his stagger mixups that cames along by canceling f12,2+4~tele~cancel

 

[Deadlywolf]

Man why did I put down lasher? I meant Shirai Ryu! I guess its because I kept getting hit by the whips and it reminds me of lashing.

The advice here is ok....

I'll figure something out.

 

[ryublaze]

Jesus dude, why is Takeda SO safe on everything?

My b2 gets punished by his f12 2+4 all the time and its so hard to play footsies with this guy.

And his d3 recovers at the speed of light, I can't whiff punish that move even if my life depended on it.

On wakeup this guy is a nightmare. He can bait out the ex teleport with d3. I'll armor through d3 but he will recover fast enough to block the ex teleport. I do try to use takeout sometimes but the reward is only average but the risk is horrible. If I try to delay wake up they can just autopilot right into f12 2+4.

I sometimes get good results doing a teleport cancel from behind. But it gets blowned up by njp every once in a while.

What do I need to do to not make this match up feel like 1-9 sometimes?

The best way to deal with d3 on knockdown is to block it, backdash or short delay wake-up. You're better off blocking the d3 and having Takeda be at +1 than eating f122+4 pressure or getting hit by a hard-to-blockable.

 

[Nexallus]

The best way to deal with d3 on knockdown is to block it, backdash or short delay wake-up. You're better off blocking the d3 and having Takeda be at +1 than eating f122+4 pressure or getting hit by a hard-to-blockable.

@Red Raptor I wanted to ask what you think about the "new" damage I found for Ronin? The Ex Fist Flurry is the most consistent and I feel like DF1 has weird damage scaling.