Deadshot Match-up Discussion

[kcd117]

Dead shot keeps brainiac from getting in by stopping trait, stopping leap, stopping ia dk, bf3, and dash. If you honestly think that deadshot can't keep brain out the entire game then you haven't played good deadshots.
You described that once brain gets in the deadshot has to guess 5050 and if they guess wrong they'll eat a 500 dmg combo but that is simply untrue which was what I was pointing out

One trade and you'll have trait on deck, after that you gotta know how to make use of it, and his mobility and you are in, it is not that simple against a good deadshot but that's the concept, it should not be that simple for him to keep you out either if you are playing smart. If you can't get in at all you gotta lab this matchup a bit more.
Once you are in, brainiac does massive dmg, you need one divekick and 2/3 mixups depending on the stage, or your positioning on screen and, that's what I'm saying, one knockdown and you should have your game stabilished, after that it is on you to make every hit count.
5-5 are supposed to be hard if you are playing good players, doesn't mean you can't make it hard for them too. Patience and good decision making are key to beat deadshot.

 

[Basic Stupidity]

One trade and you'll have trait on deck, after that you gotta know how to make use of it, and his mobility and you are in, it is not that simple against a good deadshot but that's the concept, it should not be that simple for him to keep you out either if you are playing smart. If you can't get in at all you gotta lab this matchup a bit more.
Once you are in, brainiac does massive dmg, you need one divekick and 2/3 mixups depending on the stage, or your positioning on screen and, that's what I'm saying, one knockdown and you should have your game stabilished, after that it is on you to make every hit count.
5-5 are supposed to be hard if you are playing good players, doesn't mean you can't make it hard for them too. Patience and good decision making are key to beat deadshot.

6/4s are supposed to be hard for good players what's your point? Your only point here is that on the right map and the right positioning when you get in you might do good damage. This is ridiculous. deadshot can effectively zone brain out even better than batman and yet the brain community thinks the batman mu is terrible but the deadshot one isn't. The only reason they believe this is because not many deadshots are used to the brain mu and so not many know how to appropriately approach the mu but if you get someone who does then you'll be getting in once or twice a match, get two lows, and maybe one dk and you'll lose.

 

[kcd117]

6/4s are supposed to be hard for good players what's your point? Your only point here is that on the right map and the right positioning when you get in you might do good damage. This is ridiculous. deadshot can effectively zone brain out even better than batman and yet the brain community thinks the batman mu is terrible but the deadshot one isn't. The only reason they believe this is because not many deadshots are used to the brain mu and so not many know how to appropriately approach the mu but if you get someone who does then you'll be getting in once or twice a match, get two lows, and maybe one dk and you'll lose.

I'm pointing out my take on this matchup, I just don't feel like he loses it from my experience. Batman is a completely diferent story, he is one of the worst, if not brainiac's worst matchup.

My point is: brainiac has the tools to get in on him, stay in, mix him up, and dish some big dmg. Those are the things he is very good at, and deadshot doesn't keep him from doing so. That's why I have it as a 5-5. If you wanna say it is a 6-4 it is alright, we can agree to disagree. I just feel like if you are never getting in, or getting in once or twice in a matchup, you are either making all the wrong decisions or being way too predictable, so it might not be a matchup issue but a player issue instead.

 

[GJX7]

I'm not very sure on Beetle, Cheetah, Poison Ivy, Raiden or Black Manta and would love everyones input!

 

[Fred Marvel]

She's got her dodge, walkspeed, dash speed, j2, and a cat dash. I can definitely see it even though I don't play either

Her dodge doesn't work on his low shots, and if you actually mix up the shots with db2 and df2 the evade timing will be a lot harder, deadshot has the best air presence in the game it's just underutilozed, between df2 and air straight shot he should control all the space. Don't get me wrong I see it being even but if you know how to play deadshot in the matchup I really don't see how he's overwhelmed by her. And cat dash has no armor lol

 

[Basic Stupidity]

Her dodge doesn't work on his low shots, and if you actually mix up the shots with db2 and df2 the evade timing will be a lot harder, deadshot has the best air presence in the game it's just underutilozed, between df2 and air straight shot he should control all the space. Don't get me wrong I see it being even but if you know how to play deadshot in the matchup I really don't see how he's overwhelmed by her. And cat dash has no armor lol

Cat dash doesn't need to have armor to have a presence in the mu. Those things that you said still don't really take away the advantages that catwoman gets

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Her dodge doesn't work on his low shots, and if you actually mix up the shots with db2 and df2 the evade timing will be a lot harder, deadshot has the best air presence in the game it's just underutilozed, between df2 and air straight shot he should control all the space. Don't get me wrong I see it being even but if you know how to play deadshot in the matchup I really don't see how he's overwhelmed by her. And cat dash has no armor lol

Catdash was never useful anyway.
The only moment she could peek a MB catdash was after a blocked mid bullet or low rifle but only if the DS player messed up the timing on the next wrist shot since a well timed one would hit her out of catdash so it was never useful against good players.
She has good options against him so yeah, he has to play very carefully.
I honestly think the MU is even but I can see why some people say she wins.

 

[Marinjuana]

I'm pointing out my take on this matchup, I just don't feel like he loses it from my experience. Batman is a completely diferent story, he is one of the worst, if not brainiac's worst matchup.

My point is: brainiac has the tools to get in on him, stay in, mix him up, and dish some big dmg. Those are the things he is very good at, and deadshot doesn't keep him from doing so. That's why I have it as a 5-5. If you wanna say it is a 6-4 it is alright, we can agree to disagree. I just feel like if you are never getting in, or getting in once or twice in a matchup, you are either making all the wrong decisions or being way too predictable, so it might not be a matchup issue but a player issue instead.

I agree, it doesn't really seem like a bad matchup, especially in the context of a short set. You just need a lot of patience.

I also think the stage is really important in this matchup and can do much to benefit Brainiac.

 

[kcd117]

I agree, it doesn't really seem like a bad matchup, especially in the context of a short set. You just need a lot of patience.

I also think the stage is really important in this matchup and can do much to benefit Brainiac.

Stage is definitely crucial in this matchup!
If it happens to fall on gorilla city, it's party time, now if it falls on red sun prison you might as well throw the game and go back to stage select lol

 

[Fred Marvel]

Cat dash doesn't need to have armor to have a presence in the mu. Those things that you said still don't really take away the advantages that catwoman gets

I guess I should break it down more
Walkspeed is irrelevant trust me I'm a GL player and his walk speed is AMAZING but he gets zoned out hard still.

Her dash speed is good but when do you get to dash against deadshot without getting punished? Can't dash between shots so it would have to be after a deadshot misread.

J2, every time she jumps you jump shot or jump back shot, or df2 to anti air or if she's gonna whiff go into low rifle and it'll hit her on the way down or at least push her back on block

Again I'm not saying deadshot bodies her or wins but I don't believe for a second he loses. I've only seen a handful deadshot players who are actually really good with him and play matchups and when you do I don't see how catwoman is a losing matchup at all. He's broken

 

[GJX7]

I guess I should break it down more
Walkspeed is irrelevant trust me I'm a GL player and his walk speed is AMAZING but he gets zoned out hard still.

Her dash speed is good but when do you get to dash against deadshot without getting punished? Can't dash between shots so it would have to be after a deadshot misread.

J2, every time she jumps you jump shot or jump back shot, or df2 to anti air or if she's gonna whiff go into low rifle and it'll hit her on the way down or at least push her back on block

Again I'm not saying deadshot bodies her or wins but I don't believe for a second he loses. I've only seen a handful deadshot players who are actually really good with him and play matchups and when you do I don't see how catwoman is a losing matchup at all. He's broken

Good advice for the matchup but I'm still a heavy believer that it is a 4 - 6. That means Deadshot looses slightly, he has options and can win the matchup bit he just has to play significantly better than the Catwoman to win.

 

[Fred Marvel]

Good advice for the matchup but I'm still a heavy believer that it is a 4 - 6. That means Deadshot looses slightly, he has options and can win the matchup bit he just has to play significantly better than the Catwoman to win.

but why? Like honestly what does she do that just beats him? I know 6-4 doesn't mean unwinnable or heavy disadvantage but I don't see any time you're at a disadvantage in the matchup unless you corner yourself and in that case you can push block or roll(you always have meter). Or if you're knocked down you can spend a bar for an advancing wake up that's safe on block. I know the wake up can be read but it's an option some characters don't have, for example against GL I can't wake up because she can just just jump back 2 or keep pressure and I'll get stuffed freely while deadshot has good invincibility in start up.

It's not 4-6 just practice it more

 

[GJX7]

but why? Like honestly what does she do that just beats him? I know 6-4 doesn't mean unwinnable or heavy disadvantage but I don't see any time you're at a disadvantage in the matchup unless you corner yourself and in that case you can push block or roll(you always have meter). Or if you're knocked down you can spend a bar for an advancing wake up that's safe on block. I know the wake up can be read but it's an option some characters don't have, for example against GL I can't wake up because she can just just jump back 2 or keep pressure and I'll get stuffed freely while deadshot has good invincibility in start up.

Deadshots main tool is to keep people out and catwoman has a very easy time getting in. The walk speed has a big effect on getting in, she only has to do the "crouch, walk, crouch, walk" about 3 or 4 times to be within her range.

If Catwoman can get in her range she wins the neutral, she can heavily out-space Deadshot with her fast J2 (she has a very good jump arch so it's almost impossible to react with an air shot), also, her long range whip sweep crouches under straight shot.

Lastly, once she gets in within about 5 seconds she has a stronger up-close game using her staggers and plus frames, and then she can just backdash out of 50/50 range

It is in no way unwinnable but Deadshot has to play far better than the Catwoman player to win. Overall Catwoman wins the neutral.

 

[Fred Marvel]

Deadshots main tool is to keep people out and catwoman has a very easy time getting in. The walk speed has a big effect on getting in, she only has to do the "crouch, walk, crouch, walk" about 3 or 4 times to be within her range.

If Catwoman can get in her range she wins the neutral, she can heavily out-space Deadshot with her fast J2 (she has a very good jump arch so it's almost impossible to react with an air shot), also, her long range whip sweep crouches under straight shot.

Lastly, once she gets in within about 5 seconds she has a stronger up-close game using her staggers and plus frames, and then she can just backdash out of 50/50 range

It is in no way unwinnable but Deadshot has to play far better than the Catwoman player to win. Overall Catwoman wins the neutral.

Block once and push block then she's playing your game, when she jumps you anti air. I don't see it as a losing matchup, if her walking and ducking is beating you then you're straight shotting too much not enough df2 and big buck hunter. Matchup isn't bad

 

[GJX7]

Block once and push block then she's playing your game, when she jumps you anti air. I don't see it as a losing matchup, if her walking and ducking is beating you then you're straight shotting too much not enough df2 and big buck hunter. Matchup isn't bad

Go ahead and DF2, gives her a free forward dash. Also, Deadshot cannot anti-air J2 at all

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Block once and push block then she's playing your game, when she jumps you anti air. I don't see it as a losing matchup, if her walking and ducking is beating you then you're straight shotting too much not enough df2 and big buck hunter. Matchup isn't bad

'When she's jumps you anti air'

Good meme

 

[IrishMantis]

Agree with most of it except
Atrocitus: 5-5
Blue Beetle: 6-4
Cheetah: 4-6
Doctor Fate: 7-3
Flash: 5-5
Robin: 5-5
Scarecrow: 6-4

I don’t know the Wonder Woman, Grodd, or Brainiac MUs so cant comment on that. I could see Cold and Starfire being 7-3 though but I’m not sure.

DS is Atros worse MU

Pre patch it was fine

But now if the DS plays patiently and reactively, blue bullets up when Atros traits up and pushblocks with his infinite supply of meter Atros can't do shit.