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Question - Ferra/Torr Dat KP3 bandwagon

Kamikaze_Highlander

PSN: Windude008
Well ladies and jellyspoons its that time once again. Speculation for another patch/Kombat Pack is nearly at its peak. So lets think of ways to put us into top 5!!!:DOGE

But seriously, post buffs/nerfs/fixes we need, reasonings are greatly appreciated

troll buffs can use the hashtag #theyneedsit

@dennycascade
@MadeFromMetal
@Wetdoba
@Shade667
@Doombawkz
@MK Led
@cR Biohazard
@joeldm
@imblackjames

This is incomplete but I just wanted to post what I had before I step out for a bit. More additions to come.
Universal / (R/V)
buffs
  • increase active frames of low and OH throw. Pretty fucking sick and tired of watching Ferra clip through enemies fullscreen because they were walking backward, did they not buff the travel speed in XL? They still are easily reactable at max range and jumping back is a no risk option
  • slightly adjust b1 hitbox to consistently hit ducking opponents
  • add two more active frames to f3, 5 -> 7
  • adjust animation of ji1 on hit so follow up connects more consistently. things like b1, 4, 1, 2 will not connect at max range or specific heights
  • R/V on/y - make 4,2+4 a hard knockdown. this would give us a hkd option that can quickly retrieve ferra as we run past. This most helps Vicious as it gives us better oki. (is this too much? make it -1 or -3 on block to compensate? increase damage scaling? give us the launch range back? something that gives me a reason to use this awesome string).
  • Literally any change to s3 would be a blessing, I wouldn't even care if they made it worse I would still consider it a buff.
  • remove hole from 1,1 at max range
  • decrease recovery frames on backdash
  • Shrink Ferra/Torr character model/hurtbox to female proportions, while maintiaining current hitboxes #theyneedsit
nerfs
  • R/V only - f2 is now -10 on block up from -7. b2 starter is already safe (too fucking safe imo), along with options to cancel into safe or plus frame mix ups off of f2. Lackey has one safe launcher, and no safe specials to cancel into, and with the amount of safe mix up options R/V have, f2 should be unsafe.
fixes
  • f2 hitbox/animation so that it no longer drops if the first hit connects at max range
Ruthless
buffs
  • Return armour properties of EX grab and stab. I don't think there is any armour break in the game now that this armour can consistently eat, and if there is the timing has to frame perfect, or the string is conveniently grab immune.
  • #Makedoublef2comboagain
nerfs
  • Remove EX OH and Low launchers. we have already have two easily hit confirm strings that have tons of advantage to easily PnG into f2.
Alternatively
  • 5% decrease to PnG buff. Currently at three stacks we have very easy 65%
  • third stack of PnG now has three hits of armour, down from 5
fixes

Vicious

buffs
  • f2 can now tick throw on block
  • change EX dbf1 animation. instead of ferra simply stabbing them more. Ferra jumps off and Torr just wails on them while Ferra cheers him on, ending in a hard knockdown. As it stands Vicious command grab is pretty useless out side of maybe EX'ing on hit. For the cost of a bar and slightly reduced damage (19% to 15%) it becomes a practical tool to use in a match.
  • Increase range of bf4 to just past 3/4 screen
nerfs

fixes

Lackey
buffs
  • make meterless charge safe, -5 from -9
  • Possible buffs to bf3 (charge)
  1. if a projectile is eaten during start up 1 hit of armour is granted through active frames
  2. reduced recovery on whiff
  3. if a projectile is eaten, increase Torr's running speed
  4. (want I would like the most) if a projectile is eaten during start up, the rest of the start up animation is cancelled and Torr starts running immediately. I think this is a totally fair reward for hitting a 4 frame window. this would take anywhere from 29-26 frames of start up off. This would make almost all 3\4 to midscreen charges that are projectiles a clean punish, and full screen the opponent could still block in time. As it stands lackey is incredibly vulnerable to zoning even with this property that is supposed to counter zone.
  • f2 and b12 can now tick throw on block. I wish I could strikethrough on TYM. but @Shade667 makes a good point about b121 stuffing jump outs and being a mid. In stead of ticking off b12, a new string like Jason's f3,2+4. Ticks on block and sends them full screen. I would just like more options to tick for Lackey as it a more grappler focused variation with only TWO tick options, where as plenty of characters who are not grapplers have pokes as well as strings they can tickk off
  • reduce start up on b2 to 20f, not really sure why lackey had the slowverhead?
  • dbf1 animation changed to leave the opponent near d1 range, animation is similar to the EX dbf1, except intead of throwing them across the screen after he mashes them on the ground, he backs off slightly or the roll away (still a hkd tho), ex version will still toss them fullscreen for corner positioning
nerfs
  • overall damage reduction, something around 2%-5%, we'd still be hitting around 35% meterless
fixes
  • EX db2 hopping over small crouch blocking enemies with no auto correction
  • adjust vertical hitbox on db2 so it more consistently hits opponents in the air
I don't want all of things but I think it covers a lot of issues with the character, or are quality of life buffs. Any buff taken here I would expect and almost hope be balanced out by one or two nerfs. I just hope its not something stupid like removing double f2 combos was.
 
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imblackjames

Ive seen the leprechaun
honestly i only have 2 buffs id like to see lackey get and I'll be happy

the command grab didn't throw them far away from you so u can use it to end combos and keep pressure

his b2 starts up quicker that's all i want
 

ando1184

Noob
Can I throw in some nerf ideas? Make lackeys uppercut and roll specials "parry able." It's kinda stupid for mileena's roll to get parried on one end and then when torr rolls around you gotta just take it. Same can be said bout his uppercut double punch move, same animation and hit properties as raiden's yet F/T can't be parried.....:(
 

Baconlord

Proud follower of the church of Cetrion
Can I throw in some nerf ideas? Make lackeys uppercut and roll specials "parry able." It's kinda stupid for mileena's roll to get parried on one end and then when torr rolls around you gotta just take it. Same can be said bout his uppercut double punch move, same animation and hit properties as raiden's yet F/T can't be parried.....:(
or how about we make we make it so mileena's roll can't be parried. for the sake of consistency
 

Kamikaze_Highlander

PSN: Windude008
Can I throw in some nerf ideas? Make lackeys uppercut and roll specials "parry able." It's kinda stupid for mileena's roll to get parried on one end and then when torr rolls around you gotta just take it. Same can be said bout his uppercut double punch move, same animation and hit properties as raiden's yet F/T can't be parried.....:(
Shit I had no idea they weren't parry-able, absolutely yea that should be nerfed, but that sounds more like a bug fix than a design choice for F/T

Didn't Reo already make a post of this?
Yea kinda but that didn't stop Reptile/Kitana/Alien/Sonya/etc forums for making these threads. Plus I think its mor constructive to talk about these changes in their respective threads than out in the general population
 

joeldm

Noob
Lackey

BD2: should be 9 frame start up (from 12 frame start up).
BD2 is an anti air useless.
We have to have ant air as good as Kung Lao spin hat or Cassie flip gateway. Only active frames should begin on 9 and improve their hitbox

DB2 MB: must have automatic correction.

BF3: increase the speed.

B2 should be 16 frame start up (from 23 frame start up)
 

Baconlord

Proud follower of the church of Cetrion
Parries that parry mids should parry mids, I'm sorry mileena's roll falls under that category :p
but think about it like this. if kano parries all mids, and mileena's roll goes under most mids, shouldn't roll be able to low profile his parry. I mean think about it. it just makes sense:cool:
 

Shade667

#StrongisthenewCute
Yeah, thats good. I would be the happiest camper if they just fixed all the hitbox inconsistencies. Like, when I wakeup charge to eat their oki I dont want to be teleported behind them for a free punish.

So that and returning ferras active frames back to what it was.

I like the tick throw idea off of f2, in vicious and lackey. The b12 idea in lackey is cool, but it might be a bit much. Depending if b121 would anti air jumpout attempts for full combo, if thats even possible idk.

Itd be broken in ruthless for sure lol.

Lackey's charge needs a little something as well. If Im risking getting hit by a projectile to do a precise input to counter it, Id prefer that I dont get full combo punished for it. Its stupid, dont make it have a property like that if I cant even use it. Leatherface can do it but he can cancel immediately. Id prefer that upon parry, the opponent took a little longer to recover. Or that we can cancel charge only if it parries a projectile, or even maybe a move (might be a bit much, even though we take full damage).
What if we could 2in1 charge into roll after a parry? Thatd be cool.
 

dennycascade

UPR_ghastem
Ruthless - Small damage nerf (from 41% meterless off of b121 to 35-36ish) this is only if the top tiers' outrageous stuff is getting nerfed too.
Lackey -
Some sort of mobility buff, faster run speed or possibly the 1 hit of armor after torr charge eating a projectile which OP suggested. EX torryuken no longer whiffs second hit on crouch blockers.
Vicious - Boss Toss range back to day 1. Command grab does 14% and is now a +20 hard knockdown.

If it were up to me, that's what I'd change. If Ferra/Torr got no changes at all in the next patch I would be fine with it honestly. There's many other characters in bigger need of changes and F/T is in a perfect place as of now, even as a two variation character.
 

Kamikaze_Highlander

PSN: Windude008
Yea, like many characters in the game one of the best buffs that can get is simpler nerfs to other top tiers. There are still some major fixes the character needs imo.

How about this for vicious cmd grab; dbf1 launched? With heavy scaling, and major gravity after any other launching move. Certainly looks like it should with how high they fly into the air

@joeldm b2 16f!?!? Yeezus dude, and I thought my character model buff was ludicrous. I wouldn't mind it being bumped to 20 be even that isn't necessary. B3 can make them respect the low a little longer. This might throw off the hit confirming part of it too.
 

Cooljaxx

Mkx is the name , Mix is the game
Tbh I don't think the EX low and overhead should be removed. I like having it for better confirms. Especially EX low launcher. That one is the most useful. Now EX overhead launcher can go to hell :rolleyes:
 

Cooljaxx

Mkx is the name , Mix is the game
And I would give up some of the damage from pain and gain to have back double f2. Double f2 was a blessing to have :(
 

Shade667

#StrongisthenewCute
Im fine with keeping the ex launchers. Only time u use the overhead over a PnG cancel is when u have no stamina or you have no health.
Also they already reduced the scaling on the EX little girl slide. If my run is gonna be the worst in the game, at least give me a way to bring them to me, since I cant get to them, u know?

Launching vicious cmd grab is an interesting idea. I dont know if Vicious needs it, as its not what I pick the variation for, but itd be cool. Right now Vicious is a pretty linear variation.
 

dennycascade

UPR_ghastem
Yea, like many characters in the game one of the best buffs that can get is simpler nerfs to other top tiers. There are still some major fixes the character needs imo.

How about this for vicious cmd grab; dbf1 launched? With heavy scaling, and major gravity after any other launching move. Certainly looks like it should with how high they fly into the air

@joeldm b2 16f!?!? Yeezus dude, and I thought my character model buff was ludicrous. I wouldn't mind it being bumped to 20 be even that isn't necessary. B3 can make them respect the low a little longer. This might throw off the hit confirming part of it too.
Maybe if it launched in the corner only? That would be really cool.
 

Blewdew

PSN: MaxKayX3
Just leave the character is it is. All variations are viable and cover plenty of mu's. There is no need for buffs or nerfs ( ruthless should NOT loose ex tosses). Why try to redesign a character who is already good enough in his placing? This will just end in drama again otherwise
 

Shade667

#StrongisthenewCute
Just leave the character is it is. All variations are viable and cover plenty of mu's. There is no need for buffs or nerfs ( ruthless should NOT loose ex tosses). Why try to redesign a character who is already good enough in his placing? This will just end in drama again otherwise
But also fix hitboxes, k thnx.
 

Shade667

#StrongisthenewCute
Every patch weve recieved unnecessary changes.
D1, EX ferra moves, Removing double f2's. Literally the only thing that advanced the character was making roll recover faster and making PnG cancellable. Everything else theyve changed whether positive or negative was unnecessary.

NRS doesnt understand how to balance ferra torr. Just fix our hitbox and how our hitbox and ferras hitbox interact with other hitboxes.
 

Blewdew

PSN: MaxKayX3
Every patch weve recieved unnecessary changes.
D1, EX ferra moves, Removing double f2's. Literally the only thing that advanced the character was making roll recover faster and making PnG cancellable. Everything else theyve changed whether positive or negative was unnecessary.

NRS doesnt understand how to balance ferra torr. Just fix our hitbox and how our hitbox and ferras hitbox interact with other hitboxes.
dude wat

ruthless was absolutely shit tier in the beginning, getting pngc was the best thing this variation could get.

vicious had poor damage without ex tosses and now as they have them you can finally hit confirm b121 into something bigger than 21%.

lackey got decreased damage scaling on ex toryuken so you can do big 40%+ from a safe armoured launcher. double f2 combos were stylish but roll combos do way more damage you can't do 38% meterless with double f2.

D1 NEEDED to be toned down. no character should have a 6 frame d1 and being -2 on block that can possibly tick and has this reach. even jason shouldn't have it. it is still the best d1 in the game.

d2 is now a wonderful combo extender and +4 on block.

hit advantages got increased so you could easily hitconfirm b121 in ruthless into pngc f2.

without these changes ferratorr would be way down in the tier list. now they are in a perfect spot were they should stay