Darkseid - General Strategies and Discussion

[Invincible Salads]

He mixes u for the like 400 to upwards of 480 he needs it scaled

yeah, off of unsafe mixups unless he has trait, with shitty buttons and neutral game and zoning thats not going to keep anyone out, i think its fine if this character hits like a truck dude...

if they scaled his damage then why would i play this character who would have Good mix, semi-decent zoning and garbage everything else, and i won't even get that much damage to compensate? isnt that one of the reasons he has such high damage to compensate for how ass his neutral and buttons are?

@kcd117 also flash kinda got a bit of a nerf tho didnt he? he can't combo off his running man options anymore if i remember correctly, his bf2 got faster tho.

 

[kcd117]

yeah, off of unsafe mixups unless he has trait, with shitty buttons and neutral game and zoning thats not going to keep anyone out, i think its fine if this character hits like a truck dude...

@kcd117 also flash kinda got a bit of a nerf tho didnt he? he can't combo off his running man options anymore if i remember correctly, his bf2 got faster tho.

Never played a flash that didn't have a super on deck at the end of pretty much every match lol
Small dmg nerf and having to use meter is not a problem for him, he can still get arround 70% for 2 bars.
I'm telling ya this char is gonna be a problem, not just for darkseid.

 

[EMPEROR_KNICKS]

yeah, off of unsafe mixups unless he has trait, with shitty buttons and neutral game and zoning thats not going to keep anyone out, i think its fine if this character hits like a truck dude...

if they scaled his damage then why would i play this character who would have Good mix, semi-decent zoning and garbage everything else, and i won't even get that much damage to compensate? isnt that one of the reasons he has such high damage to compensate for how ass his neutral and buttons are?

@kcd117 also flash kinda got a bit of a nerf tho didnt he? he can't combo off his running man options anymore if i remember correctly, his bf2 got faster tho.

Im not saying take away his dami but make it do slighlty less lol,while his buttons are ass his neutral is not lasers make up his neutral and they are good ,darkseids zoning is good for what it is he wins practically every zoning war and they stall for trait,while the mix is unsafe its still a mix and its off a jumping low. And what garbage everything else lol, he has good dami,good zoning,good wakeups,decent anti air, all he lacks is buttons which he should cuz itd make him more busted.

 

[DarksydeDash]

I'm honestly surprised but I understand why there are no Darkseid changes.

 

[Invincible Salads]

Never played a flash that didn't have a super on deck at the end of pretty much every match lol
Small dmg nerf and having to use meter is not a problem for him, he can still get arround 70% for 2 bars.
I'm telling ya this char is gonna be a problem, not just for darkseid.

then is this a bad time to announce that ive considered picking up flash? mostly because i wonder how good batman is gonna be after all this, since batmans pressure probably isnt gonna be that good

Im not saying take away his dami but make it do slighlty less lol,while his buttons are ass his neutral is not lasers make up his neutral and they are good ,darkseids zoning is good for what it is he wins practically every zoning war and they stall for trait,while the mix is unsafe its still a mix and its off a jumping low. And what garbage everything else lol, he has good dami,good zoning,good wakeups,decent anti air, all he lacks is buttons which he should cuz itd make him more busted.

he should still hit like a truck, that heavy damage is one of the things that has turned matches around for me so many times, allowing me to take the life lead, then proceed to play lame to the best of my ability while going for trait shenanigans. we'll just have to agree to disagree, theres no way ill agree to damage scaling on this character ever.

and btw, Once more players start doing all the things you've showcased in those video's of yours, life is going to get a lot harder for darkseid players.

 

[kcd117]

then is this a bad time to announce that ive considered picking up flash? mostly because i wonder how good batman is gonna be after all this, since batmans pressure probably isnt gonna be that good


he should still hit like a truck, that heavy damage is one of the things that has turned matches around for me so many times, allowing me to take the life lead, then proceed to play lame to the best of my ability while going for trait shenanigans. we'll just have to agree to disagree, theres no way ill agree to damage scaling on this character ever.

and btw, Once more players start doing all the things you've showcased in those video's of yours, life is going to get a lot harder for darkseid players.

Batman will be fine, his big problems weren't even addressed in this patch. Flash has always been very good, don't let all the downplay fool you, he has the best up close game in injustice 2 and the best damage output, he "struggles" in the neutral but well, so does darkseid, it is not the end of the world when you are doing 50%+ every conversion. Darkseid and Flash belong to the same tier. Weak neutral, truck-like hitting heavy mixup character, the only difference is that darkseid is punishable on all of his mixups.

 

[TheRealOnlyGoonie]

I'm honestly surprised but I understand why there are no Darkseid changes.

LOL CAUSE THE CHARACTER ISNT THAT GOOD.

 

[FLA_Anarquisto]

Darkseid shoukd shoot up in the tier list after the nerfs to the top tier, I'm curious to so how the new meta will develop and how the AM MU will change after the patch. Maybe we will see a rise of Darkseids, Canaries and Supergrills

 

[DrZmmm]

GL mu advice

Thank you for the indepth reply. It's things like this that made me join this forum. My matches against gl have improved since taking your advice.

How about the cheetah mu?
I have no problems with zoning her out. My issue is when she gets in, she goes in. One mistake and I lose half my lifebar.

I'm struggling with getting in on her though and doing my high damage stuff.
It feels like her d2 is godlike against air tele and it's hard for me to get mixups with trait cause of her leap. Thanks

 

[kcd117]

Thank you for the indepth reply. It's things like this that made me join this forum. My matches against gl have improved since taking your advice.

How about the cheetah mu?
I have no problems with zoning her out. My issue is when she gets in, she goes in. One mistake and I lose half my lifebar.

I'm struggling with getting in on her though and doing my high damage stuff.
It feels like her d2 is godlike against air tele and it's hard for me to get mixups with trait cause of her leap. Thanks

I'm glad it helped you that matchup!

For the cheetah matchup, this is one of the mu that darkseid can zone very effectively, so use it n your favor. You can force cheetah to take risks to get close, and punish her mistakes, make she loose as much health as you can while building meter that you'll need for when she gets close.
If she gets in you can play footsies with d3 bc it outranges her d3 and knocks down, that gives you room to back away and create more space to zone her.
If you find yourself with back against the wall when zoning her you can bait a leap and teleport to basically reverse positions and you'll have the whole screen to zone her again. Use trait to make her afraid to move and respect your neutral, having a parademon on screen opens a lot of opportunities to mix, build more meter or just walk bak to create more space. Cheetah doesn't really have a threat to safely keep you from calling a parademon from mid to fullscren everytime you have one on deck.
If she leaps on you with j1 you can d1 to interrupt any follow up attacks, if she uses her j2 or 3 you can't poke back but you can buffer a backdash to get out of her pressure in case they mistimed the attacks or went for a command grab. Keep in mind that any string cancelled into leap on block is fake pressure, you can blow that up with air to air attacks, d2 and mb bounce cancels, and if she cancels the leap with a foward dash you can punish her. It might look hard to see at first but you can react to it 100% of the time with practice.
When she knocks you down is when things can go south pretty fast. Try to avoid waking up, almost every option she has can beat darkseid's knee on wakeup and leads to huge damage, mix delayed wakeups with backdashs to throw of her timing and pushblock her if you happen to block her f3. You don't wanna take the mix that comes after. If she starts to finish her combos in f23 1+3 you'll have to respect pretty much all of her options afterwards, she has a pseudo vortex off of that string, but you can block low and buffer a throw to get out of it since it covers the low option and it beats the big dmg low grab option. She can finish the string and do 10% dmg and send you fullscreen away, it'll beat the throw but i'd rather take that than a 15% into a +35 restand or 45% dmg combo into oki.
I think that's all I can share for that matchup. Don't forget to delay wakeup bc it disrupts their timing, and pushblock her bc it really hurts her game and given that darkseid has great meter building in this specific match it is a very good way to use your resources.

 

[Rude]

It always requires meter and him opening you up, which isn't easy for him to do.

Yeah man, those 50/50's are so hard to do.

Stop.

 

[Rude]

PSA: you can throw Darkseid out of his ground teleport before he can do anything.

No one reacts to grounded teleports everytime.

The downplay needs to stop.

 

[haketh]

No one reacts to grounded teleports everytime.

The downplay needs to stop.

I mean people are pretty bad, a lot of his teleport stuff is a huge bill

The character needs buffs, he aint as good as people make him out to be. Not even anything huge, I'd trade some damage & MB Knee being unpuishable for a mid so fast. Eh aint as good is actually a stretch but fuck I'd kill for him not to be a character who lives or dies by the mix with a blah ass neutral game.

 

[kcd117]

He is fine the way he is.
Everytime I see someone coming here and talking bout how darkseid is a mix machine that can just walk up and 50/50 or body everyone by using that super fast 35ish frame teleport in neutral that no one seems to be able to react to it makes me wish I played these people in tournament. All I read is basically "I don't know the matchup and I won't bother learning it but just nerf that character so I can beat him with my 20th century internet speed like reflexes anyway."
He is a great character, top 10 no question, he's probably gonna be top 5 after the patch, but if you are letting him get away with all that stuff, that's on you.

 

[boba_buster]

#buffdarkseid

 

[Paul the Octopus]

Is supergirl really 5-5? @General M2Dave @kcd117

Most online supergirls are fairly terrible so I usually do fine, but was thinking about the matchup and it seems tough if they play it right.

From 80% to full screen, super girl can react to ground omega beams as well as air omega beams with teleport. She can also probably trait on reaction Darkseid summoning trait.

This means Darkseid has to avoid this area of the screen for the most part, except for just sitting there charging trait. Seems like he is left trying to play at half screen, where super girl can't react with teleport. There, Darkseid can win zoning trades, which is nice. However, that can quickly become a footsie battle, which Darkseid loses given that he loses footsies against everybody.

Overall, it seems like a match where his zoning is hard to do and trait is quite hard to set up. Darkseids damage is a big equalizer, but I'm struggling with what the neutral game strategy is supposed to be against a good supergirl.

 

[kcd117]

Is supergirl really 5-5? @General M2Dave @kcd117

Most online supergirls are fairly terrible so I usually do fine, but was thinking about the matchup and it seems tough if they play it right.

From 80% to full screen, super girl can react to ground omega beams as well as air omega beams with teleport. She can also probably trait on reaction Darkseid summoning trait.

This means Darkseid has to avoid this area of the screen for the most part, except for just sitting there charging trait. Seems like he is left trying to play at half screen, where super girl can't react with teleport. There, Darkseid can win zoning trades, which is nice. However, that can quickly become a footsie battle, which Darkseid loses given that he loses footsies against everybody.

Overall, it seems like a match where his zoning is hard to do and trait is quite hard to set up. Darkseids damage is a big equalizer, but I'm struggling with what the neutral game strategy is supposed to be against a good supergirl.

Right now this matchup is slightly in supergirl's favor. The zoning battle is in her favor bc she can hit you with trait and recover in time to dodge an omega beam from fullscreen. Footsie range is in her favor as well since darkseid doesn't have anything to challenge her b1 and his anti airs get stuffed pretty easily if the supergirl knows how to space her j1 correctly. You have to call the parademon when she runs out of trait, that's key on this matchup bc this is the only time you'll be able to safely call a parademon in neutral, and you need to captalize on those opportunities. To make her run out of it you'll have to play the zoning game a bit, even tho this is a losing scenario, it's for a bigger purpose.

Careful with trait setups, most people respect it but when you fight a supergirl that understands the matchup they'll neutral jump float cancel, or air dash away and punish you for that, you can blow them up for that too, but you'll have to make the right read. Try to avoid air teleports bc she can hit you out of it for huge punishes with j2 teleport.

While darkseid does outdamage supergirl, they both have the same problem: they can't land huge punishes on moves that are below -14 on block. So everytime supergirl blocks a stomp she can deliver big dmg, but when darkseid goes for the overhead she can't. Same applies for ds, when supergirl tries to go for the overhead grab he can punish with big dmg, but while he can punish most of her neutral options, a d1 palm is usually all he can get. Projectile trades are in his favor but they won't be trading very often. Overall I feel like the damage department is pretty even in this matchup tbh.

Most supergirls don't know how to play this matchup, they punish stuff with b12 breath, air teleports with d2s, waste trait in combos, sit still watching you call a parademon and mix them up, try to throw random teleports to catch you off guard, try to pressure you with unsafe normals... that doesn't work. But when she is played solid and optimally she can effectively control the pace of the matchup. With the patch coming I expect this to be a 6-4 in her favor. Rn I'd say it's a 5,5-4,5 for her.

 

[Paul the Octopus]

Right now this matchup is slightly in supergirl's favor. The zoning battle is in her favor bc she can hit you with trait and recover in time to dodge an omega beam from fullscreen. Footsie range is in her favor as well since darkseid doesn't have anything to challenge her b1 and his anti airs get stuffed pretty easily if the supergirl knows how to space her j1 correctly. You have to call the parademon when she runs out of trait, that's key on this matchup bc this is the only time you'll be able to safely call a parademon in neutral, and you need to captalize on those opportunities. To make her run out of it you'll have to play the zoning game a bit, even tho this is a losing scenario, it's for a bigger purpose.

Careful with trait setups, most people respect it but when you fight a supergirl that understands the matchup they'll neutral jump float cancel, or air dash away and punish you for that, you can blow them up for that too, but you'll have to make the right read. Try to avoid air teleports bc she can hit you out of it for huge punishes with j2 teleport.

While darkseid does outdamage supergirl, they both have the same problem: they can't land huge punishes on moves that are below -14 on block. So everytime supergirl blocks a stomp she can deliver big dmg, but when darkseid goes for the overhead she can't. Same applies for ds, when supergirl tries to go for the overhead grab he can punish with big dmg, but while he can punish most of her neutral options, a d1 palm is usually all he can get. Projectile trades are in his favor but they won't be trading very often. Overall I feel like the damage department is pretty even in this matchup tbh.

Most supergirls don't know how to play this matchup, they punish stuff with b12 breath, air teleports with d2s, waste trait in combos, sit still watching you call a parademon and mix them up, try to throw random teleports to catch you off guard, try to pressure you with unsafe normals... that doesn't work. But when she is played solid and optimally she can effectively control the pace of the matchup. With the patch coming I expect this to be a 6-4 in her favor. Rn I'd say it's a 5,5-4,5 for her.

Thanks dude - your thoughts on DS have been really helpful (not just vs Supergirl).

 

[M2Dave]

@Paul the Octopus , I will comment on Supergirl a little later. This patch seems really good for Darkseid.

 

[SE1Z3]

Has anyone noticed any improvement with Charging Parademon Overhead attack whiffing on half of the HKD setups? I was hoping this would be fixed

 

[Invincible Salads]

as much as i wish they made db1 safe on block, it still comes in pretty handy in the neutral simply due to how deceptive it is, since darkseid stands tall and perfectly still while using it.

that being said its still -15, one of those things where you need to use it, but its kinda risky to do so. oh well, maybe in another patch we'll get a -7 on block db1.

 

[TheRealOnlyGoonie]

I THINK ITS SAFE TO SAY, THAT DARKSEID IS DEF NOT TOP 10 ANYMORE.

 

[geezy89]

I THINK ITS SAFE TO SAY, THAT DARKSEID IS DEF NOT TOP 10 ANYMORE.

I still think he's top 10, but I figured he would be top 5 with the patch. To me it seems he pretty much stayed where he was at, somewhere in the bottom of top 10. Definitely still feel the struggle with a fair amount of mu's. Or maybe I just suck which is probably the case.

 

[TheRealOnlyGoonie]

I still think he's top 10, but I figured he would be top 5 with the patch. To me it seems he pretty much stayed where he was at, somewhere in the bottom of top 10. Definitely still feel the struggle with a fair amount of mu's. Or maybe I just suck which is probably the case.

U DONT SUCK. THE CHARACTER IS MIDTIER.

 

[MK Peanuts]

What are yall doing to punish air escapes? I figured out yesterday that after MB stomp or b1u3 MB, you can dash forward and f23 to punish them as they land from an air escape. You have to turn around before inputting f23 if they do an up escape, but you have time to react to which kind of escape they do, it's not tough. Only problem is that if they don't escape at all you get nothing.