d4 > Low Hat = Safe Trollin?

[Eddy Wang]

i'm Curious, so far NR has nerfed KL to the point he's Low hat and spin are easy punishable.

Due the hard and controlled gameplay, i managed to d4~low hat on my opponents without give them an oportunity to counter back.
Since i'm away from TY for about 2 months, i believe i just missed if this was placed, and i'm not sure if it was discussed.

I want to confirm if this is safe or not, not everyone here has the skill to counter right away before the blocking frames end, at least all guys i faced do not, but here its just a matter of grab two players and give it a try, its this tatic considered a safe move at all?

 

[Pagan]

low hat is -12 on block so although it is punishable by anyone, slower characters will have far less options than others. If you do it at the furthest range on d4 it might be only viable with fast specials and pokes. Just as long as you mix it up you should be okay.

 

[miloPKL]

d4 low hat is a favourite of mine for sure. like anything use it in moderation and it shall serve you well! is it totally safe all of the time? i dont know.

 

[PANDEMlC]

I use it a lot actually as a quick poke when I see someone standing.

 

[Big Pampering]

soo, nobody knows if it is at least safe against most of the cast? at what range is low hat safe against most of the cast actually?

 

[Big Pampering]

d4 into hat is a combo, a special cancel, so to my knowledge its safe against everyone - land the d4, land the hat. like in sf, land the dkick, land the hadouken. thats my impression

I thought the d4 low hat didnt combo it just jails the opponent to block it I thought, anydbody here thought about d3 low hat against low hitbox characters, I think its better because your d4 obviously cant match with mileenas or sonyas d4.

BTW can they jump the low hat if they block the d4?

 

[miloPKL]

I thought the d4 low hat didnt combo it just jails the opponent to block it I thought, anydbody here thought about d3 low hat against low hitbox characters, I think its better because your d4 obviously cant match with mileenas or sonyas d4.

BTW can they jump the low hat if they block the d4?

oops i gave bad info!

i just checked this for myself.

d4 hit advantage +12 frames
ground hat execution 19 frames
that leaves 7 frames for the opponent to react.
the opponent CAN block the low hat.
the opponent CAN NOT jump out. i just tested with a friend.

i did not test every character but with the ones i tested with my friend, he could not jump out.

so unless the character has a way to escape in less than 7 frames, it appears as if the low hat MUST be blocked if the d4 connects.

hope my research is sound. anyone care to test for themselves?

 

[LK-520]

oops i gave bad info!

i just checked this for myself.

d4 hit advantage +12 frames
ground hat execution 19 frames
that leaves 7 frames for the opponent to react.
the opponent CAN block the low hat.
the opponent CAN NOT jump out. i just tested with a friend.

i did not test every character but with the ones i tested with my friend, he could not jump out.

so unless the character has a way to escape in less than 7 frames, it appears as if the low hat MUST be blocked if the d4 connects.

hope my research is sound. anyone care to test for themselves?

Sounds about right. I wouldn't call the move "safe" though, if mathematically any character can punish a blocked low hat and they can block low after the D4 then there's always the possibility that you'll get punished for it. But like the first post said, some opponents might not have the execution or presence of mind to punish it, so I wouldn't respect that until they prove that you'll get hurt for even trying it. I like to mix low hat into my strings all day until I get hit back for it, and then I'll never throw it again against that opponent.

 

[Dizzy]

oops i gave bad info!

i just checked this for myself.

d4 hit advantage +12 frames
ground hat execution 19 frames
that leaves 7 frames for the opponent to react.
the opponent CAN block the low hat.
the opponent CAN NOT jump out. i just tested with a friend.

i did not test every character but with the ones i tested with my friend, he could not jump out.

so unless the character has a way to escape in less than 7 frames, it appears as if the low hat MUST be blocked if the d4 connects.

hope my research is sound. anyone care to test for themselves?

That is not taking into account cancel advantage. Those calculations would only make sense for d4, wait, then low hat. Then the opponent would be able to jump out. It takes 4 frames to jump, iirc

In answer to the OP, the pushback from d4 xx low hat is so great its only punishable by fast specials such as raiden superman, nw shoulder, jax dash punch, reptile dash, JC shadow kick, kenshi charge, etc.

 

[Death]

D+4~low hat is your BnB online. Offline, I wouldn't recommend going for it that much.

 

[Big Pampering]

D+4~low hat is your BnB online. Offline, I wouldn't recommend going for it that much.

I tend to use it as wakeup pressure

That is not taking into account cancel advantage. Those calculations would only make sense for d4, wait, then low hat. Then the opponent would be able to jump out. It takes 4 frames to jump, iirc

In answer to the OP, the pushback from d4 xx low hat is so great its only punishable by fast specials such as raiden superman, nw shoulder, jax dash punch, reptile dash, JC shadow kick, kenshi charge, etc.

Kind of like scorpions b2 full range? if so im gonna keep using it as a wakeup pressure tool

 

[miloPKL]

Dizzy so youre saying taking the cancel advantage into mind, the move is altogether faster than what i calculated? sounds good to me haha!

 

[ZtrideRz]

It's safe even on block.. connecting with a d4 gives u frame advantage to even dash in after for pressure, or in this case throw a low hat. D4 is a great way off extending your offensive pressure on your opponent.