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Strategy D1D2 Footsies

SEV

Noob
So first off congratulations to @AK Harold on his strong showing at KIT and finally putting a top 8 under Barry's belt.

It was sad to see that not many matches of the Flash were streamed, with the exception of Harold later into the tournament, considering there were at least 3: Harold, MasterD and Jim, but I noticed a missing element to all three of their gameplay; none were using D1D2 raw, and would always cancel into LK.

To state the obvious D1D2 is +2 on block with slight push back. The push back prevents it from being a traditional frame trap because we have no guaranteed follow up pressure, but once broken down, it has incredible footsie potential, and I already consider it integral to his ability to sustain pressure.

+2 isn't much, but it is enough to keep the ball rolling on failed pressure/poke. The push back though provides perfect spacing for a plethora of options with you at advantage:

1. Into more B2 pressure: Executed best after a slight step back, this is a way to continue your block string and give yourself another frame trap. This will also max punish any follow up, non-advancing string pressure(i.e. D1s, D2s, etc).

2. Punish advancing pressure: Depending on the character you can beat out advancing pressure with 112 or D2, or go for MB F/B3 or a Flying Uppercut.

3. Read escapes: With the push back, the is no guaranteed follow up pressure, so they can jump out, or back dash out; but, you're still at advantage, you just need to make the right read. You can forward dash to check and punish a back dash and you can Ji1 to punish jump outs, or even LC to punish either.

I find this to be very useful in opening up opponents but is best used in unison with LK as well, to keep them guessing, and then mixing in delayed LKs can get them scared to move at all until you go negative for sure.

Don't have any videos up for this yet, even though its pretty self expanatory, but I'll try to upload some stuff later.

@BrobaChett
@BoricuaHeat
@SaJa
@Zyphox
@xFriction_Burnx
@everyone else I'm forgetting
 
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Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Why would I not just uppercut after D12. Or block? There is pushback, no more threat of low, I can simply block, pushblock or D2 special.
 

Under_The_Mayo

Master of Quanculations
I`m assuming that when you`re in tournament, playing a character whose attacks are pretty fast, you end up inputting d12kick immediately hoping that it all hits and then you get your combo. If you just hit d12, and you do actually hit them instead of them blocking, then you`ve already lost your window to input the kick and now you`ve lost a 50% combo opportunity.
 

SEV

Noob
To reply to some early posts:
simple really, if D1D2 hits then you miss out on way too much potential damage
If it hits, you are still +21 and can literally use any follow up, and sustain pressure. I see where you're coming from though, but against people that know the MU, D1D2 gets blocked a lot and if you always end with LK, your pressure will always end with it if it's blocked. But the way you say it would be like saying, "Batman shouldn't ever B11 trait cancel for mix ups because if B11 hits you're missing out on a lot of damage." I know Flash can get more damage than Batman, but that is only if trait is up, otherwise Batman can actually do more damage. And I know it's a bit of a stretch, but just trying to convey a point for my post, not trying to start any argument or anything. Flash's got to stick together.
Why would I not just uppercut after D12. Or block? There is pushback, no more threat of low, I can simply block, pushblock or D2 special.
The spacing from D1D2 will make your D2 whiff which we can punish for 61% if they can get they timing right. You can block but that is part of the footsies/mind games with it; we get another frame trap/pseudo 50/50, meanwhile we are slowly pushing you toward the corner. And if your push block we got you to spend a bar of meter to end our pressure instead of it just ending on a blocked LK.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
To reply to some early posts:

If it hits, you are still +21 and can literally use any follow up, and sustain pressure. I see where you're coming from though, but against people that know the MU, D1D2 gets blocked a lot and if you always end with LK, your pressure will always end with it if it's blocked. But the way you say it would be like saying, "Batman shouldn't ever B11 trait cancel for mix ups because if B11 hits you're missing out on a lot of damage." I know Flash can get more damage than Batman, but that is only if trait is up, otherwise Batman can actually do more damage. And I know it's a bit of a stretch, but just trying to convey a point for my post, not trying to start any argument or anything. Flash's got to stick together.

The spacing from D1D2 will make your D2 whiff which we can punish for 61% if they can get they timing right. You can block but that is part of the footsies/mind games with it; we get another frame trap/pseudo 50/50, meanwhile we are slowly pushing you toward the corner. And if your push block we got you to spend a bar of meter to end our pressure instead of it just ending on a blocked LK.
If you think D2 will whiff you haven't seen half the cast's D2s.
 
I was using d1 not d1d2 to frame trap. I use d1d2 throw to mix up with d1d2d3 and d1d2 f2. Yes d1d2d3 is punishable but difficult for people to punish on reaction the first time they block it since it is so rarely used.

It is an interesting idea, but I will need time testing it to see if it fits my playstyle. I really like where your head is at though, but it has to be character dependent for some of the options. I am unsure if it is worth sacrificing both the chip and potential combo to do it.

1. (b22) Some characters simply beat our options at that range. The ones that do not I would use this.
2. (punish advancing pressure) Again depends if your strings crush theirs. Even if they do you are still taking shots in the dark.
3. (punish movement) I wholey agree with this option, but you can do this after a blocked pound or LK.

Overall, yes I need to add this to use every now and then but it would not be option 1 for a long time.

I actually discussed with @Jim a little bit at KiT. I love variance over "best" options so there is always a reason to do everything.
Also the mixups with LK, Sonic Pound, and Delayed kicks is too awesome.
 

SEV

Noob
If you think D2 will whiff you haven't seen half the cast's D2s.
I mean I use this all the time and is a big part of my game play and is in no way anything I'm just stumbling onto, and I was legitimately surprised no one was doing this so maybe I'm just the only one doing this currently. Also it isn't just from the D1D2 spacing, we are +2 and can take a step back with Flash's walk speed before you can do anything, creating more space. But if you don't want to take my word for it go lab it. Might not work 100% of the time against 100% of the cast, but I've yet to play a MU where this isn't viable.
 
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BoricuaHeat

PSN:KrocoCola
I thought this was posted before (didn't know it was plus 2 tho).

On certain characters it is possible to for a d2 to hit for a frame trap with a 7 frame gap, since d2 is -11 on block you have to go into lighting kick to make it a viable tool, however you can used delayed LK for another frame trap or my favorite go into close sonic pound (neutral on block) and go from there. And if you really wanna bring out the online warrior in you, dash cancel LK after d2 and go for a throw or d1.

D1 on its own is a great frame trap tool being +1. You can go for repeated d1's with a 6 frame gap (must use a crouching normal to hit flash out), sonic pound, d2 into the options stated above, and my favorite the throw.

Well that's all I got!
 

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
I thought this was posted before (didn't know it was plus 2 tho).

On certain characters it is possible to for a d2 to hit for a frame trap with a 7 frame gap, since d2 is -11 on block you have to go into lighting kick to make it a viable tool, however you can used delayed LK for another frame trap or my favorite go into close sonic pound (neutral on block) and go from there. And if you really wanna bring out the online warrior in you, dash cancel LK after d2 and go for a throw or d1.

D1 on its own is a great frame trap tool being +1. You can go for repeated d1's with a 6 frame gap (must use a crouching normal to hit flash out), sonic pound, d2 into the options stated above, and my favorite the throw.

Well that's all I got!
That's probably because according to the game it's +1. lol. (It kould be wrong though.) @SEV

Remember, you also have to factor in walkspeed and standing hitboxes when testing it. So D2 might not work on everyone you've tested it on. I prefer D2~RMS, on hit you get a swag kombo and on block you're safe even from even reversal Corpse Charge.

@everyone else I'm forgetting
Like me!
 

BoricuaHeat

PSN:KrocoCola
That's probably because according to the game it's +1. lol. (It kould be wrong though.) @SEV

Remember, you also have to factor in walkspeed and standing hitboxes when testing it. So D2 might not work on everyone you've tested it on. I prefer D2~RMS, on hit you get a swag kombo and on block you're safe even from even reversal Corpse Charge.


Like me!
Yeah it's only possible on certain members of the cast. I usually just mix up from three options I have when I hit a d2 on block to screw with the opponent. D2~RMS when their not punishing d2 to pound, d2 to pound when their not punish d2 lk, and d2 lk dash cancel for gimmicks. Still really trivial to pressure with d2 tho.
 

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
Yeah it's only possible on certain members of the cast. I usually just mix up from three options I have when I hit a d2 on block to screw with the opponent. D2~RMS when their not punishing d2 to pound, d2 to pound when their not punish d2 lk, and d2 lk dash cancel for gimmicks. Still really trivial to pressure with d2 tho.
Kan you give an example of who the frame trap works on? I tried it on quite a few and it tends to wiff.
 

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
Try it on Lobo. Does not seem to whiff.
I tested it and it works on the komputer if he's set to block but record yourself doing it (and use Lobo) and you'll see that Lobo kan just walk back.

PS: I always read your name as BoricuaHeart and up until earlier today I thought that's what your TYM name was... lol.
 

BoricuaHeat

PSN:KrocoCola
I tested it and it works on the komputer if he's set to block but record yourself doing it (and use Lobo) and you'll see that Lobo kan just walk back.

PS: I always read your name as BoricuaHeart and up until earlier today I thought that's what your TYM name was... lol.
Oh that's what ya meant. Yeah they can just walk back from most of these with kinda sucks, your better off just going for other options like just d1 into raw d2. Lol Boricua Heart sounds like a good substitute name.
 

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
Oh that's what ya meant. Yeah they can just walk back from most of these with kinda sucks, your better off just going for other options like just d1 into raw d2. Lol Boricua Heart sounds like a good substitute name.
I usually do D1, D1 if I want to keep pressure going. lol. But I guess after the second I kould do D2 if they're still blocking. D1, D1, D2.

I like the name.. Haha...
 

BoricuaHeat

PSN:KrocoCola
I usually do D1, D1 if I want to keep pressure going. lol. But I guess after the second I kould do D2 if they're still blocking. D1, D1, D2.

I like the name.. Haha...
Hahaha, the Heart of PR! Yo you online right now? I don't got any studying to do and have some free time to go nuts.