D1/S3 Pushback Inconsistency (Video & Tech Added)

[Ray'sGoodLiquor]

Back in the lab with Raiden and I'm running into something weird. I'm trying to find more ways to get a standing 3 out against a blocking opponent. D1 is -3, and S3 has an 11 frame start up, so jailing isn't relevant. S3 has a really small hurtbox, and you have to be right in someone's face to use it. If you get as close as you can, D1, then S3, sometimes the S3 doesn't connect. I'm trying to figure out why. Is there an inconsistency with how much pushback D1 causes? If you try and link the moves as tightly as you can, it hits more consistently, so is there something going on with the target's animation causing their hitbox to lurch a hair forward for a couple frames?

For reference, my combo dummy is Sub Zero with the russian rapper skin #1 and set to standing auto block.

Edit: I meant to put this in the Raiden subforum. I reported myself to ask that it be moved.

 

[Mandolore1123]

Back in the lab with Raiden and I'm running into something weird. I'm trying to find more ways to get a standing 3 out against a blocking opponent. D1 is -3, and S3 has an 11 frame start up, so jailing isn't relevant. S3 has a really small hurtbox, and you have to be right in someone's face to use it. If you get as close as you can, D1, then S3, sometimes the S3 doesn't connect. I'm trying to figure out why. Is there an inconsistency with how much pushback D1 causes? If you try and link the moves as tightly as you can, it hits more consistently, so is there something going on with the target's animation causing their hitbox to lurch a hair forward for a couple frames?

For reference, my combo dummy is Sub Zero with the russian rapper skin #1 and set to standing auto block.

Edit: I meant to put this in the Raiden subforum. I reported myself to ask that it be moved.

S3 is...just not good

 

[Black Chapters]

sounds like proper MK11

 

[Ray'sGoodLiquor]

Here's some video of what I'm talking about

 

[Braindead]

Here's some video of what I'm talking about

Just looks like the s3 connects if Subzero is still blocking and doesn't if he stops blocking. So it's not inconsistent you're just doing the s3 a bit late sometimes (after AI lets go of block).

Record Raiden doing d1 s3 and you try to block and let go of block yourself.

 

[Ray'sGoodLiquor]

Just looks like the s3 connects if Subzero is still blocking and doesn't if he stops blocking. So it's not inconsistent you're just doing the s3 a bit late sometimes (after AI lets go of block).

Record Raiden doing d1 s3 and you try to block and let go of block yourself.

That's kind of the point I'm making. It seems like the block/unblock animation causes Sub's hitbox to move forward just a hair. If it didn't, the amount of time in between the D1 and S3 wouldn't matter, and since it's not a string or a jail, the AI will release block after the D1 and reblock when the S3 connects. It just seems like the range of a move should be universal when nobody is pushing direction inputs. Unfortunately it doesn't look like anything Raiden has will leave him in range for a S3 without the other person holding block, which they probably wont.

 

[SonicNinja3532]

I mean in this situation you’re pressing s3 after a blocked poke which leaves you negative anyway so idk how this could work out in a real match. Unfortunately though s3 has an absolutely atrocious hitbox, you’re probably only gonna realistically be able to get it out on a jump in honestly.

 

[Black Chapters]

That's kind of the point I'm making. It seems like the block/unblock animation causes Sub's hitbox to move forward just a hair. If it didn't, the amount of time in between the D1 and S3 wouldn't matter, and since it's not a string or a jail, the AI will release block after the D1 and reblock when the S3 connects. It just seems like the range of a move should be universal when nobody is pushing direction inputs. Unfortunately it doesn't look like anything Raiden has will leave him in range for a S3 without the other person holding block, which they probably wont.

Hitboxes indeed move with blocking, tested that with Raiden's F1

 

[Ray'sGoodLiquor]

Hitboxes indeed move with blocking, tested that with Raiden's F1

Considering all that's been said, what use does S3 have?

 

[Black Chapters]

Considering all that's been said, what use does S3 have?

leads to death

yet another example of the 3rd tallest fighter not using his range like the others

Raiden has so many scrunched up attacks its sad

 

[Marlow]

Have you tested it after a D1 or D3 on hit? I was messing around with S3 trying to find a situation to use it, and it seemed to connect after D1 hit range, and point blank (but not max) D3 hit range.

Overall the use seems extremely limited though. Basically just point blank situations where you're sure the opponent is blocking.

 

[Ray'sGoodLiquor]

Have you tested it after a D1 or D3 on hit? I was messing around with S3 trying to find a situation to use it, and it seemed to connect after D1 hit range, and point blank (but not max) D3 hit range.

Overall the use seems extremely limited though. Basically just point blank situations where you're sure the opponent is blocking.

Good looking out. D1 and D3 not at max range will basically jail into a S3. D1 into 3 only has a 1 frame gap and D3 into S3 jails. I'm actually a little surprised how far away you can use D3 where S3 will connect after. If your D1/D3 connects and they block the S3, you are at +3. If the D1/D3 connects and so does the S3, you're at +6. If you finish the string (321) you're +24 on hit with a big knockback and +1 on block.

Follow ups for S3 on block are:
1- doesn't connect
D1- doesn't connect
B1- 8f gap
F1- 13f gap
2- doesn't connect
D2- 6f gap
3- doesn't connect
B3- 13f gap
D3- 5f gap
F3- 8f gap
4- 7f gap
F4- 16f gap
D4- 11f gap
B4- 12f gap
Throw- 7f gap
Short hop punch- doesn't connect
Short hop kick - 9f plus however many frames the hop takes
Electric Burst DF2- 16f gap
Discharge- 3f gap

Follow ups for S3 on hit are:
Everything listed above minus 3 frames

Looks like a throw setup is gonna offer the best option. D2 will connect and if they throw out a jab instead of a d1, that's a krushing blow. B1 can potentially be poked out of, but It's definitely safe enough for online. A F3 that lands leads to a +15 situation. Short hop kick might be a nice option for overhead conditioning but I honestly don't know the frame data for hopping. This makes S3 seem a lot better than I previously thought as Raiden's 8f d3 is beastly.

 

[Trustful_Whale]

leads to death

yet another example of the 3rd tallest fighter not using his range like the others

Raiden has so many scrunched up attacks its sad

And basically t-poses when he jumps. Real useful there, zappy man.