Question - TriBorg Cyrax & CSZ changes

[Harlequin969]

You play CSZ without the MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMIX?

If the had the consistent mix of Cyrax I'd use it but CSZ inconsistent mix turns me off to relying on it. Plus that DoT ice feels so good

 

[MadeOfMetal]

nope, with CSZ it works from what I can see.

GG's btw yeah i seen it was different for CSZ than cyrax in our matches, and i look forward to learning the Cyrax vs CSZ/Ermac and the Kenshi vs CSZ/Ermac. ill hit you up tomorrow or when ev. it was fun playing soemone that challenges me. made me think and thats more than most online players can do, so props man and i enjoyed each game. Hope you did as well.

 

[The Abbot]

nope, with CSZ it works from what I can see.

And if I'm not mistaken B3 doesn't work on females.

 

[Harlequin969]

How much stronger would CSZ be if he could bomb after freeze? Would that be too much or just what he needs? Personally I'd love the change to go through.

 

[FrankOceansWaifu]

How much stronger would CSZ be if he could bomb after freeze? Would that be too much or just what he needs? Personally I'd love the change to go through.

We'd get pre patch summomer most likely

 

[Harlequin969]

We'd get pre patch summomer most likely

Would we? Because Cyrax can do the same thing. Bomb after net in a combo. Which allows him to use setups. CSZ would gain the same properties so would it be as strong? I'm assuming if done like that it you would deal with it the same as Cyrax which is either armor, delayed wakeup or backdash depending on the setup.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Cyber Sub-Zero doesn't need htb bullshit, he honestly just needs to be able to do combos again. He already has great mobility and armor, if getting hit by him was actually scary then he would have good mixups as well.

 

[Harlequin969]

Cyber Sub-Zero doesn't need htb bullshit, he honestly just needs to be able to do combos again. He already has great mobility and armor, if getting hit by him was actually scary then he would have good mixups as well.

If people used drones more they would see getting hit is scary. 30-32% meterless mid screen to 35-37% in the corner.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

If people used drones more they would see getting hit is scary. 30-32% meterless mid screen to 35-37% in the corner.

Not off of his most important starters though, that is the problem. The ice ball nerf took away F13 and B1.

 

[Ragnarök Tyr]

I would be fine if CSZ could combo F13 into ice ball without spending meter~

 

[FrankOceansWaifu]

Would we? Because Cyrax can do the same thing. Bomb after net in a combo. Which allows him to use setups. CSZ would gain the same properties so would it be as strong? I'm assuming if done like that it you would deal with it the same as Cyrax which is either armor, delayed wakeup or backdash depending on the setup.

Giving CSZ the ability to mix midscreen like Cyrax is unecessary considering his corner carry and corner game as well.

If people used drones more they would see getting hit is scary. 30-32% meterless mid screen to 35-37% in the corner.

Btw which combos are you doing with drones? Midcreen I'm doing DE F12xxrunxx 21 F131xxslide and i'm getting 27% i dont feel like i'm optimizing enough

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I would be fine if CSZ could combo F13 into ice ball without spending meter~

Exactly, they butchered his combo potential which is by far the worst thing that happened to him. The ice ball nerf was totally thoughtless. Ice ball wasn't even a problem, the htb were and now he isn't guaranteed any htb setups so let him do combos.

 

[God Confirm]

ice ball, scaling, meter dependency, everything else aside... there is no POINT to picking this character if he doesn't have enough hit advantage to get a real set-up and not a gimmick.

 

[Harlequin969]

Not off of his most important starters though, that is the problem. The ice ball nerf took away F13 and B1.

I agree, I want those back but I've been forcing myself to take what I've got and spend meter really on only b1,2+4

 

[Harlequin969]

Btw which combos are you doing with drones? Midcreen I'm doing DE F12xxrunxx 21 F131xxslide and i'm getting 27% i dont feel like i'm optimizing enough

Essentially anything I can get into iceball. So f4, b3, and 111 into DE iceball, b3u4, dive kick, rc 21, f131 slide nets about 32%

 

[MadeOfMetal]

How much stronger would CSZ be if he could bomb after freeze? Would that be too much or just what he needs? Personally I'd love the change to go through.

I think too much, honestly i love CSZ i really do, but i understand from playing CSZ mains that are very good with him currently with the Nerfs from 3-29-2016. and that could make him broke as fuck. but F13 B1 and his other starters should connect with freeze on hit. and this is undeniable.

When they nerfed his normal freeze they made Startup 5 frames slower. what we should do to undo and fix what they did is: make Normal Freeze 5 frames quicker and make the Recovery of the move 5 frames slower. so in the same light, it can't be shotguned and each freeze with still have the same speed and spacing across the screen. but all his Starters will work fine. when he does 1/11/B1/F13/B3 into Freeze it will still ocnnect on hit once again. as of now none of them work, and CSZ has to use B3U4/B2 which are both very risky, and B2 takes half the stamina from CSZ how the fuck do you even follow up on that in a real match? you don't that takes away your options, then we have B1-2+4 + BLK well that takes a bar and gets almost nothing in damage, its viable but come on. it needs more damage, and at least B3 and F13 should work with freeze. so we could use B1-2+4-BLK to catch them Overhead. and B3U4 is omg so punishable on block so is the Dive kick you can put on the end. so nomatter how you use B3U4 as great of a starter that it is its very punishable and risky as fuck to use. if the Fear of the other strings was there B1/b2/F13/B3/1/11 then you could probably use B3U4 every so often without as much risk.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

I agree, I want those back but I've been forcing myself to take what I've got and spend meter really on only b1,2+4

If they could just make Freeze start 5 frames faster and make Recovery 5 frames slower, then they would work, and we could get standard Neutral back minus the HTB loops midscreen. he is good but i think CSZ deserves this at least.

 

[Harlequin969]

I think too much, honestly i love CSZ i really do, but i understand from playing CSZ mains that are very good with him currently with the Nerfs from 3-29-2016. and that could make him broke as fuck. but F13 B1 and his other starters should connect with freeze on hit. and this is undeniable.

When they nerfed his normal freeze they made Startup 5 frames slower. what we should do to undo and fix what they did is: make Normal Freeze 5 frames quicker and make the Recovery of the move 5 frames slower. so in the same light, it can't be shotguned and each freeze with still have the same speed and spacing across the screen. but all his Starters will work fine. when he does 1/11/B1/F13/B3 into Freeze it will still ocnnect on hit once again. as of now none of them work, and CSZ has to use B3U4/B2 which are both very risky, and B2 takes half the stamina from CSZ how the fuck do you even follow up on that in a real match? you don't that takes away your options, then we have B1-2+4 + BLK well that takes a bar and gets almost nothing in damage, its viable but come on. it needs more damage, and at least B3 and F13 should work with freeze. so we could use B1-2+4-BLK to catch them Overhead. and B3U4 is omg so punishable on block so is the Dive kick you can put on the end. so nomatter how you use B3U4 as great of a starter that it is its very punishable and risky as fuck to use. if the Fear of the other strings was there B1/b2/F13/B3/1/11 then you could probably use B3U4 every so often without as much risk.

The main reason I ask is because Ketchup has brought it up a few times and its made me try and think about why I don't want it. My immediate thought was no, he doesn't need that but I could never give a reason outside of htbs would be too much. So I figured the other CSZ players would have some opinions on the matter.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

The main reason I ask is because Ketchup has brought it up a few times and its made me try and think about why I don't want it. My immediate thought was no, he doesn't need that but I could never give a reason outside of htbs would be too much. So I figured the other CSZ players would have some opinions on the matter.

i get ya, but the problem is with any Character loyalist, and I'm no exception niether is anyone els eon TYM. When you only use your Character you become blind to all your characters strengths, and only focus on their weaknesses. It is a natural thing we do. when we lose to a specific character we think our character has a flaw and can not overcome said matchup because of that one weakness. when in reality we most likely may be using the character incorrectly in that specific situation. like When Kenshi Balanced uses BF3(Tele-Flurry) on Reptile Noxious and the opponent tries to block Tele Flurry then Dashes with BF2. and wonders why they can't get in, then they try to Jump over last one and punish the Rocovery but they still end up back at full screen. 3 matches later the Reptile tried 5 different methods and then proclaims Reptile loses to Balanced-Kenshi.

This is actually a true story. My brother Was Reptile and i used Balanced. What he shoulkd have done was Wait for Tele-Flurry and Duck it by crouching without block held. then RC into either Normal Slide or EX slide(slippery slide/BF4). and he would have got in. he also has Run Cancel into F21 cancel into any move to Full combo punish, another move that can work with Reptile is DB4 hold Forward depending on distance. can trip up oppnent and make them block incorrectly.

The most common example is when i find an online player that knows the Kenshi Balanced matchup, and knows to Duck the Teleflurry since you can almost full combo punish it on wiff from full screen, you can run up almost to opponent and then make them guess between low/Overhead starter. but when i Use DB4 which is the overhead slash i can make it appear middle,close or far on screen. the problem with that move is if they run through it they can full combo punish me on wiff, and im not able to block before they hit me from full screen.

here is the thing though. if i mix up my OH slash to my Teleflurry which is a high. the run gets caught by Teleflurry and the Duck gets caught by Overhead slash. so i can condition them into thinking i do OH slash every time i knock them down they will wake up to a OH Slash, so they know wake up and Run and they get me. but i can Trick them and hit them with BF3 Tele flurry and then follow up with another. of course i can guess this wrong and they could capitalize on it. its all Read's and guessing. but i have effectivly kept some out making them fear a possible OH/Teleflurry. Not saying its easy to keep anyone out with Kenshi cuz its not and honestly one of the hardest characters to master andf use and to win with. everyone basically beats him in some way.

But the point of this story was, my Brother actually thought Kenshi wins Reptile hands down. and thats because i knew his Tendancies. and i know ho9w he plays. when you play someone for so long, you know certain things they do. like for example my brother likes to use 21 into D3 alot, and when pressured he uses what he first thinks of Like most of us do. and thats one of his Staples he grasps to. and i capitalize on it alot, obviously Kenshi has Balls for Neutral up close and D1 only grants Armored attack for kenshi, so i can see 21 and immidiately EX Rising karma xx 43 xx TeleFlurry. he is back at full screen away. still in Reptiles Favor sadly. he gets in Reptile wins hands down despite what my brother believed untill he used Kenshi for himself.


My point is Sometimes its not good for Character loyalists to make all of the Buff suggestions for their characters because there vision might be clouded. and they may think their character is weaker and in need of more buffs than is really needed and or they may not use the character correctly depending on matchup as they should and think another buff is needed when they can handle it already.
If you get what i mean?

 

[Kindred]

When it comes to pretty much any strategy, you're fucked without drones. They are the backbone to your damage and you need, in a perfect world, 2 with you at all times. With just 1 and a bar, you can get 34-37% midscreen. NjP can lead to a 32% combo with 2 drones & with 3 drones+bar, you can turn the wacky F12 into a 35% midscreen combo. I sometimes will use a meter just to get the drones.

As for HtBs with his bombs....I'd LOVE to see that. Does he need them, probably not if they give him a faster iceball with slower recovery. If they don't then, I wouldn't mind seeing that to get a damage boost. They won't though because they released a patch specifically to anally fuck his damage output.

As of now, CSZ is quite frustrating to play. You have to work 5x harder to beat someone because you have to divide your attention to all the usual details everyone has to look for, as well as meter management (even more crucial for CSZ since he needs it for dmg, breakers, and armored slides) & drone management

GG's btw yeah i seen it was different for CSZ than cyrax in our matches, and i look forward to learning the Cyrax vs CSZ/Ermac and the Kenshi vs CSZ/Ermac. ill hit you up tomorrow or when ev. it was fun playing soemone that challenges me. made me think and thats more than most online players can do, so props man and i enjoyed each game. Hope you did as well.

yea for sure man, really fun games. We shall repeat!

 

[iAteUrLife]

When it comes to pretty much any strategy, you're fucked without drones. They are the backbone to your damage and you need, in a perfect world, 2 with you at all times. With just 1 and a bar, you can get 34-37% midscreen. NjP can lead to a 32% combo with 2 drones & with 3 drones+bar, you can turn the wacky F12 into a 35% midscreen combo. I sometimes will use a meter just to get the drones.

As for HtBs with his bombs....I'd LOVE to see that. Does he need them, probably not if they give him a faster iceball with slower recovery. If they don't then, I wouldn't mind seeing that to get a damage boost. They won't though because they released a patch specifically to anally fuck his damage output.

As of now, CSZ is quite frustrating to play. You have to work 5x harder to beat someone because you have to divide your attention to all the usual details everyone has to look for, as well as meter management (even more crucial for CSZ since he needs it for dmg, breakers, and armored slides) & drone management


yea for sure man, really fun games. We shall repeat!

Yeah I had really good games with you. The drones have become n essential part to my game now. I still vary my corner pressure and even found a solid 1 drone meterless 40% combo. I never even though that after a bomb setup in the corner of the person is afraid to jump out cuz you condition 21 to armor break and beat them out of jumping they duck to not get hit by the bomb. U do b1 slide it does oh low and bomb explodes low to keep u safe from if they somehow block the oh and slide cuz of the bomb detonating. The combo leads to 40% lol if their hit by both the b1 and slide

 

[iAteUrLife]

nope, with CSZ it works from what I can see.

Yeah he did this to me and I was so confused how it was connecting. You have to be close though must be hit advantage on it at that range

 

[tatterbug4]

I just want cyrax to have a good mid man

 

[MadeOfMetal]

cyrax good mid and Teleport launch