guys all this setups are very cool. But what bothers me and I gues everyone who plays Cyborg, that converts of sudden aa during opponents jumps out are often like 5-7% and sometimes it results even in getting punished.
I've never seen anyone who kept all the jail to the end (lol, but 112 got accordingly blocked like a 1/100 times). What would be great - take the easiest setup and develop stable conversions for most of the situations.
For example, when opp is cornered after 112 - TA setup -> b12 into grapple then:
- jumps out on wake up: b12 drops combo.
- jumps out on wake up but staggered b1 can aa into full easy combo
- blocks staggered b1 and then jumps out - almost nothing you can do with that setup
- eats b12: grapple puts us conered whiffing followup pressure and even getting punished
So the only way to get that setup working - is fully respect al the jail pressure what almost never happens in real life.
So what is the point of such setups? What we need is consistency. I've watched lots of gameplays on different tournaments where Cyborg usually wins only doing consistent things like constant projectile wars and keep away game. Because going into setup will almost always result in a few percents damage done.
I see where your coming from, but the point of this thread is to explore Cyborgs pressure and setup game. Of course, while trying to do this, there will be trial and error, as at the moment Cyborg doesn't have setups that covers all the opponents options. That's the point of this thread, to continue to develop tech for such scenarios. Even those you listed, I'm willing to go into practice mode and evaluate the options on each because for each character, you have to know every option.
Also, I have watched nearly all the footage on youtube as far as competitive play on this character (I constantly update the match footage thread also). Cyborg's main gameplan is zoning, as you stated, most players know this. This thread is just merely exploring his setups/pressure game, it's not meant to label Cyborg as a pressure character, just exploring his options.
Furthermore, a lot of competitive Cyborg players haven't implemented these setups into their game yet, it's going to take time. Hell, when I saw this thread I initially blew it off and ended my combos with Powerfist to cash out damage. Now I've started integrating them into my game, and even at my local scene (and I have had success landing these, as well as pressure). The whole point is exploration.
What is my preferd way to play: end any combo into f22 that results in HKD. That allows you free 1 dash in and ambigous crossup follow up into 112 pressure. That is guaranteed.
Corener 113 ender into grapple is also like 90% percent guaranteed pressure. Though opp can rollback and cyborg end up cornered -_-
What I want to say, cyborg design makes you think that its setup machine. But after playing so much I understand, that those tools that he has doesn't allow him to consistently build meter out of his pressure or convert different situations into decent damage or new guaranteed setup (have you ever tried 10/10 end in 112 TA after aa combo? Thats almost impossible). So the most consistent way to play Cyb is actually IAFB and developing keep away game. Cyborg can never be such a setup-pressure machine like Red Hood for example...
..just my thoughts about the way to develop Cyborg..
That's great, and there nothing wrong with ending with f22. For example, Prettyflocko ends with f2 into SD for HKD to continue to zone, and I also use that for specific matchups also. This thread is just to explore his pressure game, for those willing to use it.
Problem with 113 in the corner (the same with 112 and b123) is that it can be techrolled (as mentioned). Most of my training partners at my local scene have already began to tech roll his corner game as well as delay getup on many of his setups. But that's why I'm working on setups for tech roll delay getup as well, which is the point of this thread. Explore his pressure and oki options.
As far exploring his keep away game, I've already made 3 (will be 4 after tonight) different matchup threads on the character, all exploring reversal situations and oki setups for specific matchups. The Cyborg community has put out more content than any other community as far as matchup specifics and okizeme are concerned. Below is an example:
Cyborg vs. Superman
https://testyourmight.com/threads/matchup-discussion-cyborg-vs-superman-living-guide.65057/
Cyborg vs. Dr. Fate
https://testyourmight.com/threads/matchup-discussion-cyborg-vs-dr-fate-living-guide.64698/
