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Cyborg Match Footage Thread

Protagonist_1

Protagonist_1

Noob
Cyborg Ranked matches 3/5
-gotta say, I love this format. Playing ranked feels more worth while now than before, will try to upload more soon



 
DubiousShenron

DubiousShenron

Beware my power.
megamonk4 said:
@Protagonist_1, you get so many matches in a day! Lol

It's hard to keep up.

So far I only watched your set with dr. Fate. I don't think the matchup is that bad, but it does get difficult for either character once either cyborg or date falls behind.
Things to note:
Don't be afraid to trade fireballs. This is one of the matchup where trades will actually go into our favor (mainly due to the damage!). And fate will need to burn meter/trait or use his healing spell to outtrade/mitigate damage.
Cyborg can also attack from an angle fate cannot, and that's from the air.

Once you get better at iafb, its an important tool to use to maximize on your advantage. Because now you can outdamage and potentially block his fireballs due to the recovery.

Try to mitigate falling too far behind. If you do, it forces your hand to get in. Imo, it's better to up grapple his finger shots (sorry, don't know the notation or name lol), and it's better to mb roll through the orb attack (only if you are mid range).

I have to finish typing this later. My phone sucks, lol.


I'll be sure to watch superman too
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This. The mu for me is I try to keep cyborg out of air fireball range by freezing the orb there cause he wins from that range and I also use yellow ankhs on him when I don't have an orb to keep him out. This is one of the MUs where doctor fate fights better without his trait.

Cyborg also wins grounded fireball trades. Also make sure you make Fate respect b123 after a f2xxpush.

You guys might hate me for this but I think this MU is even cause cyborg can win trades and his air fireball will be uncontested unless I have resources stocked.

5-5.
 
Protagonist_1

Protagonist_1

Noob
DubiousShenron said:
This. The mu for me is I try to keep cyborg out of air fireball range by freezing the orb there cause he wins from that range and I also use yellow ankhs on him when I don't have an orb to keep him out. This is one of the MUs where doctor fate fights better without his trait.

Cyborg also wins grounded fireball trades. Also make sure you make Fate respect b123 after a f2xxpush.

You guys might hate me for this but I think this MU is even cause cyborg can win trades and his air fireball will be uncontested unless I have resources stocked.

5-5.
Click to expand...
No hate at all lol. However, after evaluating this matchup and playing it on several occasions, I can say with confidence that Cyborg doesn't win the trade war in this matchup. Your looking at damage, which at first I was doing to until I made my Cyborg vs. Dr. Fate thread, but a fireball is so much more than just that. There's startup, the speed of the fireball across screen, recovery, and even the hitbox of the fireball. If you want, we can discuss it further in this thread below not to get too off topic:

Cyborg vs. Dr. Fate living guide
https://testyourmight.com/threads/matchup-discussion-cyborg-vs-dr-fate-living-guide.64698/

For example, Dr. Fate's Amon Ra blast has faster recovery than nova blast, is more plus on hit (+7 vs. +1 for Cyborg) and travels faster as well. Also, Dr. Fate's trait is a legit threat in this matchup because his zoning then does more damage than Cyborg and he wins the trade war (Amon Ra does 102 vs. Cyborg's fireball which is 100 damage, EX Amon Ra does 186 damage). I break down the trade war and damage in detail in the matchup thread as well, but I'm always open for dispute.

Cyborg is more likely to get hit by Amon Ra blast than Fate taking a Nova blast. And even if he does take one, he still wins the trade war even if both players continue to keep shooting fireballs at each other due to Dr. Fate's plus frames, recovery on Amon Ra blast, and his projectile speed being faster than Cyborg's. Check out the section called "Video Reversal Situations" to see a better demonstration there.
 
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DubiousShenron

DubiousShenron

Beware my power.
da800don said:
Cyborg: the only zoning character that can be outzoned by other zoning characters by pure frame data. Thanks NRS.

Heres a close match of mine with Supergirl. Hey, we gotta take all the wins we can right? Enjoy.
http://xboxclips.com/Xda800donX/d79cdcc1-80bf-4f17-8f0d-13af0ce20a4d/embed
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No it happens to other zoners too. Red hood can beat doctor fate out with his shiruken stars from full screen so Fate has to stand a little closer than full screen to force trades with red hood or else he will recover in time to win trades.

It'a not just about frame data it's also about space and range. Doctor fate can even put up a fight against deadshot if he stands at the right range to win trades.

Fate vs Deadshot @ fullscreen (0-10)
Fate vs deadshot @ 2/3 screen (3-7)

Winning or losing zoning wars isn't as cut and dry as you may think.
 
da800don

da800don

Noob
DubiousShenron said:
No it happens to other zoners too. Red hood can beat doctor fate out with his shiruken stars from full screen so Fate has to stand a little closer than full screen to force trades with red hood or else he will recover in time to win trades.

It'a not just about frame data it's also about space and range. Doctor fate can even put up a fight against deadshot if he stands at the right range to win trades.

Fate vs Deadshot @ fullscreen (0-10)
Fate vs deadshot @ 2/3 screen (3-7)

Winning or losing zoning wars isn't as cut and dry as you may think.
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I see what you mean and I agree. Just fed up on recovery for Cyborg. so slow.
 
DubiousShenron

DubiousShenron

Beware my power.
da800don said:
I see what you mean and I agree. Just fed up on recovery for Cyborg. so slow.
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Yes it's a very valid point, his projectile doesn't make sense. Is it an oppressive based projectile or a setup based one? Well the answer is both or neither and that's why it's ineffective.

Look at doctor fate for example, he is a zoning master. First he has a fast projectile with slower recovery so he can limit the options of those trying to get in on him. Second he has his slow orb with fast recovery so has can bait advances like dashes or jumps and anti projectile moves into full combo punishes.

Cyborgs fireball frames are somewhere in the middle of Fates 2 projectiles, which is not a good thing. That means cyborg has a slow fireball with slow recovery, which means it's terrible for oppressively controlling space or baiting people to react to your fireball and punishing them once youve recovered.

This puts cyborg in a spot where his fireball has almost no utility except for raw damage, but cyborg makes up for this by being able to attack with fireballs from all angles and ranges.

I do respect you cyborg players and as a zoning loyalist I can confidently say he needs some help in zoning or a boost in other areas to put him where he belongs in the tier list.
 
Marlow

Marlow

Premium Supporter
Premium Supporter
Cyborg's fireball might be slow, but it does good damage, and it hits mid. He can also delay/cancel out of it, which is fairly unique compared to other characters' projectiles. I think it has utiltiy as a pressure tool. Cyborg has to be more selective in his use, but when he connects with a fireball it's more rewarding, from a damage perspective.

Edit: One other thought. The thing with Cyborg is that he's not a traditional zoner in the mold of someone like Deadshot, who is a pure "keep them out" zoner. Cyborg wants to set up a minefield and make the opponent struggle to get in, but Cyborg isn't made to win by sitting full screen and just blasting away. At some point Cyborg needs to look for an opening or create a setup and go in. That's when the meter built from harrassing and pressuring the opponent comes into play, and it's why meter management and descision making is so important for Cyborg. It's difficult, but highly satisfying.
 
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HiddenSelectCounterPick

HiddenSelectCounterPick

Crossplay Username: ProbablyMinus
If you master the Iafb you can make your match ups less difficult but the recovery is still slow against fate he wins the trade war, as cyborg like said above loses to fate at full screen he can't trade, deadshot all you have to do is wait for an opening and grapple and delay your fall with a nb we all need to also stop losing a match with a ton of meter is our fault meter burning nb does increase its dmg. What I do on some occasions since it happens frequently up close is wiffing a up nova blast them they think they can punish so wiffing it then meter burn, when it hits then do an Iafb they will get desperate, grapple or keep shooting and don't be afraid to spend a bar canceling a mb b3 to eat a move that will put you at a hkd where Borg doesn't want to be and punish. It works lab it or mb b3 gaps his arm has reach
 
Protagonist_1

Protagonist_1

Noob
Cyborg vs. Swampthing (I seriously need to understand the trade situations in this matchup, and the footsie game from range 2-4)

Cyborg vs. Dr. Fate (still struggling in this matchup, although the guide helped a ton)
 
HiddenSelectCounterPick

HiddenSelectCounterPick

Crossplay Username: ProbablyMinus
Not my video but its my first time fighting BM I didn't even download him yet I feel like he has an answer for novablast since its slow I got punished for jumping into novablast or just shooting it his backdash and jailing pressure is insane this is a hard match up for cyborg he struggles staying in, him lacking a invincible reliable wakeup and stubby arms hurts him here, I found it extremely hard to punish BM and the ex tele almost feels safe I think you can punish it with b1 pf but I lost every match here ya go

 
4x4lo8o

4x4lo8o

Noob
Protagonist_1 said:
Cyborg vs. Swampthing (I seriously need to understand the trade situations in this matchup, and the footsie game from range 2-4)
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This is a matchup that I think you want to play either as close to fullscreen as possible or right up in his face. At midcreen his normals interfere with your fireball game and clip you out of the air and can't really be stuffed by any of your normals.

At full screen he can't do anything in reaction to instant air fireball. You can fire one and if tries to use close or vine grab you can land and crouch safely and he'll eat the fireball, and you can get off another fireball. Once you've got a fireball on the screen you can keep throwing all he can really do is try to force a trade or start inching forward.

Cyborgs pressure works pretty well against him. He doesn't have particularly good pokes or anything so the normal shenanigans work well, you just gotta stay in s1 range

I think the biggest problem in the mu is that he has really good space and air control midcreen with all his crazy normals so you can't rely on down fireballs or jump ins to get stuff going. F22 and 23 don't work well either, you gotta get in range your faster stuff or use mb b3. Don't ever end block strings in SD because it pushes back too much
 
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Protagonist_1

Protagonist_1

Noob
4x4lo8o said:
godlike advice
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Thanks for the advice, his overhead string (I think f22?) has an insane hitbox and really dominates the mid screen range. It really caught me off guard, considering that in most matchups I feel Cyborg wants to stay at range 2-4 to zone. I still need to go into practice mode and look at the trade situation into more depth, but very helpful advice.

His jump attack (I think it's j2, the one with the tree branch) reaches as far as range 2.5 also. I thought I could anti-air his floaty jump with PF, but it doesn't seem reliable in an online setting. I'm sure I could do it in an offline setting though.
 
Protagonist_1

Protagonist_1

Noob
This is me just playing the AI, since at the time I had a sh*t ton of homework lol. Trying to experiment more with post d1 options and attempt more cancels. Going by prior match footage, my counterpoke game is my weakest part, so hopefully I can improve on it later down the road.

 
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