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Question - Cyber Sub-Zero Cyber Sub Hotfix nerf

Is he still good after this nerf?

  • Definetely

    Votes: 55 84.6%
  • Nope

    Votes: 10 15.4%

  • Total voters
    65

Gesture Required Ahead

Get on that hook
Ok so 16bit confirmed that F2 was nerfed. It's not by much and I'm not sure how it affects the bomb set-up but if so, NJK is still available.

EDIT: I have the unpatched version so I can make some comparisons.

Currently, 1112 airborne gives enough hit advantage for CSZ to neutral jump twice before the opponent can move. NJK is the same. F2 airborne is gives CSZ enough adv for 1 neutral jump and starting another.

According to 16Bit, the new F2 makes it so that the opponent can move before the first jump finishes. I don't know how the new 1112 is like but I can guess it's been castrated. However I highly doubt that NJK will get affected so CSZ keeps the corner dirt.(IMO not that he needs it anyway. What he does need is some solid neutral tools, but that's another story)
 
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Samsara

Resident Cynic
F2 was already worse than 1112 was before the hotfix.

since they nerfed both options we need to find an alternative.
 

ZigZag

That Welsh Guy
So in theory we NJK for the vortex?
I feel like we're losing alot of damage though to achieve this.
Going to have to lab optimal combos with the NJK to decide if this is worth it.
Really the worst part of all this is the Dive kicks, it was a great threat for the neutral and now it's gone, next to that F2 is abysmal and either should be mid or have better AA properties.
 

Samsara

Resident Cynic
I already know for a fact that his damage has taken a significant hit unless we simply end every combo into a slide.
 

Samsara

Resident Cynic
So in theory we NJK for the vortex?
I feel like we're losing alot of damage though to achieve this.
Going to have to lab optimal combos with the NJK to decide if this is worth it.
Really the worst part of all this is the Dive kicks, it was a great threat for the neutral and now it's gone, next to that F2 is abysmal and either should be mid or have better AA properties.
His damage has been severely hurt. We're going to have to completely overhaul the entire combo thread to allow for less damaging NJK enders. I'll list slide as a damage ender for his corner damage.

He was already pretty low to begin with.

I'd rather they just increase the bomb scaling than make the adjustment this annoying.
 

ZigZag

That Welsh Guy
His damage has been severely hurt. We're going to have to completely overhaul the entire combo thread to allow for less damaging NJK enders. I'll list slide as a damage ender for his corner damage.

He was already pretty low to begin with.

I'd rather they just increase the bomb scaling than make the adjustment this annoying.
is it even going to be worth it? what are we looking at damage wise? especially on something that can be block... now we have to lose alot of damage to go for a setup that's not guaranteed at all.
 

babalook

Noob
What is all this talk about NJK, f2 still works for the vortex last I checked (roughly 2 hrs ago). Drone bomb b3d4 (f43 cdk)x2 NJp f2 does 39% down from 42%. Not that big of a hit.
 

Samsara

Resident Cynic
What is all this talk about NJK, f2 still works for the vortex last I checked (roughly 2 hrs ago). Drone bomb b3d4 (f43 cdk)x2 NJp f2 does 39% down from 42%. Not that big of a hit.
What is the current hit advantage of F2? It was already worse than 1112 and they nerfed both.
 

just_2swift

MK1 is the best MK period.
Not sure if this is known (found it day one) but 212 can be special canceled into bomb IF you use drone on 21(2)xxbomb.

Edit: it's probably not cancelled into bomb but the hit seems to launch and give you enough time to deploy bomb?
 

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
Hitting with meaty f2 on an airborne opponent will grant CSZ the same set ups. The timing is strict, but it beats jump outs and KL's wake-up spin. Visit the combo thread to see what specifically we're using if you're interested.
 

Kryo

Assassin Kitana specialist
Well look guys this nerf isn't killing off CSZ. It's just giving us a way to become more creative and use our reads more.
 

DDutchguy

Stand 4'ing airplanes out of the sky
Anyone saying Cyber Sub is no longer good deserves all the keks.

Anyway, I've heard people in this thread say F2 is not a good move. Maybe not for the corner setups but, correct me if I'm wrong, it's still a very quick half-screen 9% that leads to a setup (maybe not a guaranteed one but it still counts). Don't see how that is not a good attack.
 

Kryo

Assassin Kitana specialist
1112 is sill useful tho. Like its a hard knock down and even if you don't get the setup and vortex you still get a good knockdown. And if your opponent wants to armor through just respect and punish if possible.