Custom Variation Moves Discussion (Scorpion)

[scrubjesus111]

@Shale101 Kitana’s and Jade’s both armor break and KB. Jacqui’s travels faster, and was only just made unsafe on block at -12 (demon dash is -17). Jade’s and NW’s can be amp’d on block for safety. Johnny’s travels faster and farther, as does Jade’s. Shao’s combos for big damage. You forgot to include Liu’s which travels faster and farther and KB’s, Kotal’s jaguar which beats projectiles, Kano ball (faster, farther, mid AND 10f startup) and SubZero’s slide which is a low, goes full screen, low profiles and KBs. Actually you’ve just convinced me that Scorpion’s is the worst in the whole game with Shang’s and Cold Shoulder LMAO

 

[scrubjesus111]

@Shale101 Travel speed and utility are even more important than startup. Just look at Baraka’s Blade Charge. Startup is 16f, but the travel speed is practically a teleport. You can’t react to the slower startup it’s so fast. And it armor breaks and krushing blows, so add blade charge to the list of moves that are infinitely better than demon dash

 

[Shale101]

@Shale101 Kitana’s and Jade’s both armor break and KB. Jacqui’s travels faster, and was only just made unsafe on block at -12 (demon dash is -17). Jade’s and NW’s can be amp’d on block for safety. Johnny’s travels faster and farther, as does Jade’s. Shao’s combos for big damage. You forgot to include Liu’s which travels faster and farther and KB’s, Kotal’s jaguar which beats projectiles, Kano ball (faster, farther, mid AND 10f startup) and SubZero’s slide which is a low, goes full screen, low profiles and KBs. Actually you’ve just convinced me that Scorpion’s is the worst in the whole game with Shang’s and Cold Shoulder LMAO

Scorpion ignores neutral completely .....each character has a certain set of tools.....scorpion is not lacking in the slightest. Jade's can be amped but its still unsafe......full punish. Jade's kick does not travel further then demon dash and they are both 12 frames so thats just factual incorrect. You can duck her dash and scorpion's you can't. I didnt mention Lui or Kotal because i dont really consider those dashes since they leave the ground.....same with kano. Shang's dash isnt a base move and it should suck.......he is so very good already.

 

[spidey300]

you can't listen to people's opinions on scorpion because they don't know what it's like to have been playing day 1 or pre release and have just about every patch include nerfing him. i don't know where people get that scorpion ignores neutral anymore ever since they took away mid teleport and even so; there were even more fuck neutral tools in the game and on the way (jacqcui leap). only way for him to skip neutral is tele cancel and even so the fear of mid tele is gone so now people just mash crouching buttons pull screen on him. i'm not asking for scorpion to be buffed out the ass but can nrs please stop nerfing him.

 

[scrubjesus111]

@Shale101 Bro, just stop. Lab it yourself if u don’t believe, Jade’s goes farther. Why would you lie about that?? All of those are essentially charge moves and you know it, you’re splitting hairs. You have 0 argument. Demon trash is terrible and does almost nothing for Scorpion as is.

 

[Shale101]

@Shale101 Bro, just stop. Lab it yourself if u don’t believe, Jade’s goes farther. Why would you lie about that?? All of those are essentially charge moves and you know it, you’re splitting hairs. You have 0 argument. Demon trash is terrible and does almost nothing for Scorpion as is.

umm bro....unless they JUST changed it with the patch.....I PLAY JADE....it doesnt go further then his dash......why would i lie about that? Correct me if im wrong with the patch...but pre patch NO....his has more range . I love how demon dash is TERRIBLE now lol because you cant amp it ? its a 12 fram dash! a mid!

 

[scrubjesus111]

@Shale101 I don’t know what else to tell you buddy. Even if I’m wrong about Jade’s range, it’s still an armor breaker, with a KB, that can be amp’d on block. And yes, that is a HUGE deal when your opponent has to respect the possibility of an amp after blocking a charge attack, but you know that already - it’s common sense. Demon dash is one of the worst charge moves in the game, just admit it.

 

[Shale101]

@Shale101 I don’t know what else to tell you buddy. Even if I’m wrong about Jade’s range, it’s still an armor breaker, with a KB, that can be amp’d on block. And yes, that is a HUGE deal when your opponent has to respect the possibility of an amp after blocking a charge attack, but you know that already - it’s common sense. Demon dash is one of the worst charge moves in the game, just admit it.

Lol now it's "even if i'm wrong"....but i thought I was a liar? CHECK IT yourself.......It's also a huge deal the the dash is a mid....which you fail to acknowledge. People uppercut Jade all day. Demon dash is solid and good.....amazing no....scorpion doesn't need an amazing dash since he is an all around good character with some real good tools. Scorpion is not going to have all the same exact tools as another character.....like Jade's teleport from customs doesn't compare to scorpions and why should it? Scorpion has his own armor breaker....focus on that. He isn't getting an 8 frame MID dash with amp and armor breaker.....get over it....you want it ALL. Scorpion has really good and EASY Kb's as it is...... If Dash isn't good enough anymore for you then don't use it.....he has a lot to choose from.

 

[Juggs]

Imagine going into a thread for a character you don’t main just to argue with the people who do. Must be nice having all that free time.

 

[scrubjesus111]

I’m talking to a wall. It being a mid means nothing if you can literally react to its animation. @Shale101 Please man, if nothing else just take demon dash to the lab and see how easy it is to react with block at mid range.

 

[Shale101]

I’m talking to a wall. It being a mid means nothing if you can literally react to its animation. @Shale101 Please man, if nothing else just take demon dash to the lab and see how easy it is to react with block at mid range.

i guess you can always just react to everything over just 12 frames then right?.....oh and her kick with out burning meter is 60 damage......demon dash is 82.50 .....so yeah there is that to........

 

[scrubjesus111]

Kill me. The beginning of the active frames is at the 12th frame after the input. Then you have to consider how many frames it takes for the move’s hitbox to reach the opponent. At mid range, that’s far more than 12f from button press to contact with the opponent. But don’t take my word for it. Take it to training mode, compare it to Jade’s if you want.

 

[Shale101]

Kill me. The beginning of the active frames is at the 12th frame after the input. Then you have to consider how many frames it takes for the move’s hitbox to reach the opponent. At mid range, that’s far more than 12f from button press to contact with the opponent. But don’t take my word for it. Take it to training mode, compare it to Jade’s if you want.

Well the same goes for every other character ...what is your point? I never said that scorpion's dash was better then Jades.......im pointing out the positive aspects of it since to you think its complete trash and the worst thing in the entire game. His dash should never have been 7 frames to start with......this isnt a base tool he needs.....thats why it isnt a base tool for him and it is for jade. I understand you WANT it to be faster but scorpion doesnt NEED it to be faster......there is a lot of things i want for Jade.....like a parry that doesnt take 12 frames to start up....

 

[scrubjesus111]

God you keep backpedaling and pivoting. Then what was YOUR point by saying a 12f move isn’t reactable? I disproved that and so you pretend like you never tried to argue it and another point is more relevant anyway, so we’re just going in circles now. Demon dash NEEDS to be faster to be useful. Yes. Yes it does. Imagine Jade’s Parry was a kustom move. Would you ever pick it as it is? Wouldn’t you want it to be better to be worth a slot?

 

[Juggs]

God you keep backpedaling and pivoting. Then what was YOUR point by saying a 12f move isn’t reactable? I disproved that and so you pretend like you never tried to argue it and another point is more relevant anyway, so we’re just going in circles now. Demon dash NEEDS to be faster to be useful. Yes. Yes it does. Imagine Jade’s Parry was a kustom move. Would you ever pick it as it is? Wouldn’t you want it to be better to be worth a slot?

Hell, even at 7 frames it was reactable at the right distance. Maybe not right next to Scorpion, but the move was definitely reactable in neutral. Reason being is because yes the startup was 7 frames, but the further you were away, the easier it was to react. Even though it’s -17 on block, you could easily walk back and punish it on reaction if you wanted. I actually tested this before it was nerfed.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1325149025344098304

Obviously you can argue I knew it was coming so I’m not technically reacting to it, but it’s kinda like a footsies “reaction”. Which is a combination of prediction and reaction. And the video doesn’t show pure reaction since I knew it was coming out. But I tested doing what is shown in the video on reaction too, just didn’t record it. I figured it being -17 on block, it wasn’t necessary to spend too much time on reacting to it before you blocked it. I just thought it was interesting that it was possible.

 

[Shale101]

I never said 12 f move isn't Reactable ...i said... " i guess you can always just react to everything over just 12 frames then right?...." You didnt dissappove anything..... I however disproved that Jade's kick doesn't have further range then his dash......Jade is bottom 5 right now so.....Be happy with where scorpion is compared to where he COULD be.

 

[scrubjesus111]

 

[7horx]

Jacqui Bionic Dash 13 frames High

Kitana Square Wave 13 frames Mid

Jade Shadow Kick 12 Frames High

Night Wolf Rhino Charge 12 frames Mid

Shang Sorcery Rush 13 Frames Mid

Shao Shoulder Charge 16 frames Mid

Johnny Cage Shadow Kick 11 frames High

SO scorpion needs to be better then everyone else? is that it?

All of these moves are in base kits of these characters. Scorpion needs to sacrifice one of his slots to get the demon dash. Thats why it should be better in my opinion. 9-10 frames of startup would be perfect.

 

[Dante]

The thing is it has travel time. Meaning it wasnt i7 if it isnt close range. So even at 8 it would be ok, since at close range you can punish -8 with 11, and further away it would reach where jabs dont and b2 b1 are too slow, all that for 10% 1bar. I'd STILL debate putting in it over air throw (as i did when it was i7 for some matchups).

Good news tho, air throw is a better slot and less scrubby. Guess thats bad news for most MK players :O

 

[Error404]

Demon dash is dead and gone. Best bet right now is tele-cancel and NJP. Out of all 1 slot moves NJP gives you the most.

 

[Dante]

Demon dash is dead and gone. Best bet right now is tele-cancel and NJP. Out of all 1 slot moves NJP gives you the most.

NJP gives you a little extra dmg on combos basically which isnt that great value imo
Air throw gives you a KB even without bar but most importantly lets you land faster (and doesnt have much recovery) which can bait anti airs and allow you to close in in unique ways. Its so much fun really

 

[Error404]

NJP gives you a little extra dmg on combos basically which isnt that great value imo
Air throw gives you a KB even without bar but most importantly lets you land faster (and doesnt have much recovery) which can bait anti airs and allow you to close in in unique ways. Its so much fun really

It's a safe launcher in neutral. It can also give you higher guarenteed damage if you use spear -> njp as your combo route

 

[Dante]

It's a safe launcher in neutral. It can also give you higher guarenteed damage if you use spear -> njp as your combo route

Yeah i know. My question is, how often do you connect regular neutral jump buttons vs somewhat good opponents and how much more dmg you get on the ex tele combo for it to be worth it over actual utility

 

[Scoot Magee]

Fireball is the best to pair with tele cancel imo. You cant just crouch from afar when scorpion has this option. Just being able to provoke movement in neutral is a big deal imo.

After fireball I'd say njp.

 

[scrubjesus111]

Fireball is the best to pair with tele cancel imo. You cant just crouch from afar when scorpion has this option. Just being able to provoke movement in neutral is a big deal imo.

After fireball I'd say njp.

Fireball is wack. I keep hearing people say it plugs a hole in his neutral game by giving him more screen presence, but he already has fullscreen presence with teleport. Avirk just ran tele cancel w/ air grab in that 60k tournament, and that’s because all of Scorpion’s kustoms are shit.

Also it’s beyond me why NRS gave it a (pitiful, hard to connect) launch on amplify when Scorpion already has two in his base kit.

I’d love if he could hold-cancel it. Then I’d say the move is definitely worth a slot.